TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14-Apr-2019, 2:26 AM   #41
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
Thanks, Tim.

My intention was to use these antennas that way.

I was told that my DB 8E was only a UHF antenna.
At the time, I had an old CM for VHF.
High winds did some damage to that old antenna which led me to the Clear Stream 5.

That didn't produce satisfactory results. so I returned it in the 90 day window and got the 5020.
Subsequently I have learned some of the problems I had with the Clear Stream may have been installer error or ignorance.

Is a UVSJ combiner something that looks like a splitter but not a splitter?
If so I have one, maybe, that I have been using
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 10:50 AM   #42
Nascarken
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 346
distribution amp'S

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.
The antenna Direct antennas are all hi gain!!
ANTENNAs it does not matter where you put the distribution AMP
And that is what the ANTENNA manufactures say,I like when installing antenna
equipment and do not do the home work in the first place hello Rabbit ears
I have an OTHER Johansson amp kit would you be willing too tack it it's the
vhf/uhf and do testing on it and tell me what you think about them.
and I have like 15 left of them?? no more antenna installing for me my M,S
Has got the best of me,but hi gain ANTENNAs read about hi gain ANTENNAs and
what the antenna manufactures say.about distribution amp's.
Nascarken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 11:34 AM   #43
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
Thanks for the info, Nascarken.

I'll see if I can find that info to see what I can learn
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 12:13 PM   #44
bobsgarage
Senior Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Thanks, Bob, for your input.

I'm a techno-dunce and don't understand this stuff very much.

Do you have an example of a product that is a tuner so I could learn about them?

If I understand, my Channel Master and my DB 8 E are dissimilar antennas.

If I combine them with the right pre-amp I may have success?

Right now, my UHF antenna is powered with an Antennas Direct PA 18 UHF/VHF pre amp kit.
I'd had thought of connecting both antennas to it but didn't have the cables on hand when I hooked the antennas up
Good morning Blackstone.

So, you asked about tuners. The tuner is merely a box that your RF cable will go into and has an output of RF or HDMI or others like the red yellow and white RCA connections that would go to your TV. During the digital transition of 2009 the government was giving out coupons for the digital converter boxes for free.

Those were very basic, they were called converters and allowed people with non digital, old tube type TVs and inputs to be able to receive digital television. Now, you can buy a "tuner box", that will record your shows for you. TiVo, HomeRun, Channel Master, Homeworxs and others. Most modern television sets are digital ready and don't need any type of box, you can just screw the coax cable directly into the TV and the TV receives digital perfectly.

In the case of my new flat screen HDMI 4K TV there are no RF connections! I have to use a tuner with a HDMI outputs. Actually, I have two tuners but that's another story for another day.

I may not have made myself clear but those two antennas are completely different and will not combine without failure. Actually, in the case of the CM 5020 it is a UHF VHF combination antenna and is a standalone unit. You should try to just use it all by itself. Do not attempt to combine any antennas with it because it has everything you need. as a matter of fact if that antenna doesn't pick up your signals you have some serious work to do.

If you absolutely have to combines the two antennas then you need to do it with a pre-amplifier that accepts separate UHF / VHF inputs. but, before warrant it will block DHL from one antenna and the UHF from another so choose wisely. What a waste that would be to block the UHF from that 5020. since the DB8E is UHF only you would put that into the UHF input and screw the 5020 into the VHF input.

I was where you are at 3 years ago. So, it's still fresh in my mind, I received a lot of good advice here and I'm on some of the other forums. I'd like to say I've made some good friends here. I ignored some of the advice just to see for myself. I know it's irritating to those who are giving advice when somebody doesn't follow but I wanted to learn. In your case if you like to experiment have fun with it.

Since you have two completely different antennas (dissimilar), and I mean as different as you can get, you are better off running separate outputs to each TV if you have two TVs. You can always pre-amp your signal and split the signal to each TV. In other words since you already have two antennas, route the 5020 signal to the TV that needs UHF/VHF. Route the DB8E signal to a TV where you only care about UHF.

Or, if you want UHF and VHF from the other antenna you can get the Stellar labs VHF antenna and combine them with a UVSJ.

I like to mess around I took a break from it for a while and now I'm back on it.


Last edited by bobsgarage; 14-Apr-2019 at 12:27 PM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 2:30 PM   #45
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
Bob, thanks for all that info.

I am grateful for TvFool and all the kind, patient people that offer help to dunderheads like me.

I try to follow advice. Some, I'm not sure I understand.

I have tried running one or the other antennas.
I will try again after posting this and report back.

Do you know of a specific preamp that would do this?

Quote:
do it with a pre-amplifier that accepts separate UHF / VHF inputs. but, before warrant it will block DHL from one antenna and the UHF from another so choose wisely.
This seems like a reasonable way to try since I can't get as many UHF stations with the 5020
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 3:09 PM   #46
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
Here are the results of disconnecting each antenna.

With only the DB 8E only connected, I get the following.
(Virtual Channels) (RF Channels) (Call sign)
2 25 KDKA
4 51 WTAE
11 48 WPXI
16 38 ION
6 34 WJAC

With only the channel master, I get no UHF stations.

9 9 WTOV
13 13 WQED
19 11 WPCW

Together, they wipe out 4,6,11 and 13

53 WPGH has vanished again
I did a scan after each change

Last edited by blackstone; 14-Apr-2019 at 3:17 PM.
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 6:36 PM   #47
Nascarken
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage View Post
Good morning Blackstone.

So, you asked about tuners. The tuner is merely a box that your RF cable will go into and has an output of RF or HDMI or others like the red yellow and white RCA connections that would go to your TV. During the digital transition of 2009 the government was giving out coupons for the digital converter boxes for free.

Those were very basic, they were called converters and allowed people with non digital, old tube type TVs and inputs to be able to receive digital television. Now, you can buy a "tuner box", that will record your shows for you. TiVo, HomeRun, Channel Master, Homeworxs and others. Most modern television sets are digital ready and don't need any type of box, you can just screw the coax cable directly into the TV and the TV receives digital perfectly.

In the case of my new flat screen HDMI 4K TV there are no RF connections! I have to use a tuner with a HDMI outputs. Actually, I have two tuners but that's another story for another day.

I may not have made myself clear but those two antennas are completely different and will not combine without failure. Actually, in the case of the CM 5020 it is a UHF VHF combination antenna and is a standalone unit. You should try to just use it all by itself. Do not attempt to combine any antennas with it because it has everything you need. as a matter of fact if that antenna doesn't pick up your signals you have some serious work to do.

If you absolutely have to combines the two antennas then you need to do it with a pre-amplifier that accepts separate UHF / VHF inputs. but, before warrant it will block DHL from one antenna and the UHF from another so choose wisely. What a waste that would be to block the UHF from that 5020. since the DB8E is UHF only you would put that into the UHF input and screw the 5020 into the VHF input.

I was where you are at 3 years ago. So, it's still fresh in my mind, I received a lot of good advice here and I'm on some of the other forums. I'd like to say I've made some good friends here. I ignored some of the advice just to see for myself. I know it's irritating to those who are giving advice when somebody doesn't follow but I wanted to learn. In your case if you like to experiment have fun with it.

Since you have two completely different antennas (dissimilar), and I mean as different as you can get, you are better off running separate outputs to each TV if you have two TVs. You can always pre-amp your signal and split the signal to each TV. In other words since you already have two antennas, route the 5020 signal to the TV that needs UHF/VHF. Route the DB8E signal to a TV where you only care about UHF.

Or, if you want UHF and VHF from the other antenna you can get the Stellar labs VHF antenna and combine them with a UVSJ.

I like to mess around I took a break from it for a while and now I'm back on it.

ok so if you want too do 2antennas one uhf and a seller's LAB
Hi gain vh f ANTENNA and if you want a shure thing for it to Receive well
And with no playing around I can get you a Johansson amp kit that is uhf/vh f
is35:dbg& the uhf 45:dbg,and you can adjust your db g on both sides and if
You use the seller's LAB hi gain ANTENNA With an ANTENNA Direct 91xg.
The space between the two of them is 4ft feet line's 52inches long in a T shape
To the amp and out to the tv set and the uhf 12inches.To the amp

Last edited by Nascarken; 14-Apr-2019 at 6:39 PM.
Nascarken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 6:45 PM   #48
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Thanks, Tim.

Is a UVSJ combiner something that looks like a splitter but not a splitter?
If so I have one, maybe, that I have been using
A UVSJ physically looks live a splitter but works very differently. It has an input marked UHF, another input marked VHF and a Line output. I would not count on it being a UVSJ unless it is specifically marked as such.

The UVSJ has a very specific function and is used when you want to combine UHF signals from one antenna with VHF signals from another antenna.

A UHF antenna will receive some VHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the VHF component from the UHF antenna.

A VHF antenna will receive some UHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the UHF component from the VHF antenna.

Since you have signals being received on two antennas, the signals may arrive at each antenna at a slightly different time. When combined together they may offset each other and lessen the total amount of signal making it weaker. Using the UVSJ, when it combines the signals from the two antennas, there are no competing signals that will mix with each other and cause signal degradation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg G21474B.jpg (44.2 KB, 82 views)

Last edited by Tim; 14-Apr-2019 at 6:50 PM.
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 7:06 PM   #49
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
By the way, UVSJ combiners are getting a bit hard to find these days. Tower Guy posted a link a couple of weeks ago for a source:
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.c...?number=G21474
I ordered a couple just to have on hand.

After rereading this thread from start to finish, this is what I gather about Blackstone's situation:

He has a DB8E pointed 210 degrees to receive UHF stations only. It has a preamp.

He has a CM5020 pointed 220 degrees to receive VHF stations only. It has a preamp.

He has a separate feed from each antenna going to a Channelplus combiner/splitter.

The output of the combiner/splitter goes to a Channelmaster amp and out to the TV sets.

Blackstone, can you confirm that is how you have your system set up? If not, can you describe further?

Last edited by Tim; 14-Apr-2019 at 7:20 PM. Reason: Revised based on Blackstone's comments
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 7:14 PM   #50
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
Tim, you have it almost totally correct.
The only thing different is that both antennas are aimed at, essentially, the same direction.
The DB 8E is, roughly 210-215 and the CM is, roughly, 220-225.

It may not be germane but each line has it's own preamp
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 7:23 PM   #51
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Tim, you have it almost totally correct.
The only thing different is that both antennas are aimed at, essentially, the same direction.
The DB 8E is, roughly 210-215 and the CM is, roughly, 220-225.

It may not be germane but each line has it's own preamp
Are the preamps mounted at the antennas?

Approximately how much feedline from the antenna to the preamp?

Approximately how much feedline from the preamp to the splitter/combiner?

Approximately how much feedline from the splitter/combiner to the distribution amp?
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 7:51 PM   #52
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
One preamp is at the antenna for the DB 8E and there is approx. 3' from the antenna to the combiner.
The other is inside for the CM.
There is a 50' cable to the preamp and 3' to the combiner.

I think there is a 3' cable from the combiner to the distribution amp
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 8:45 PM   #53
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
If anyone needs a UVSJ combiner, I had to buy 5 from the link Tim provided.
(They have a $10 minimum)

I would send them for postage
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 9:56 PM   #54
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
One preamp is at the antenna for the DB 8E and there is approx. 3' from the antenna to the combiner.
The other is inside for the CM.
There is a 50' cable to the preamp and 3' to the combiner.

I think there is a 3' cable from the combiner to the distribution amp
OK, that is giving me a clearer picture of your system. Take a look at this diagram and let me know anything that needs to change.

How long is the cable run from the distribution amp to each of your TVs?

Also, are you using power inserters to power your preamps? Or are they powered directly at the preamp?
Attached Images
File Type: png Blackstone.png (9.1 KB, 108 views)

Last edited by Tim; 14-Apr-2019 at 9:58 PM.
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 10:41 PM   #55
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
That looks like it

Thanks, Tim
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 10:47 PM   #56
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
How long is the cable run from the distribution amp to each of your TVs?

Also, are you using power inserters to power your preamps? Or are they powered directly at the preamp?
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 10:52 PM   #57
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
Not 100% sure about the living room; maybe 20-25' for each.
The living room is using old Direct tv cabling
The bedroom was put in when my mom was still alive so she could watch tv in bed
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 10:54 PM   #58
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
OK, good, now tell me how the pre-amps are powered. Are you using power inserters?
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 10:58 PM   #59
blackstone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 126
I don't know what power inserters are.

If it helps, the one on the DB 8E is an Antennas Direct Pa 18 preamp and the CM is a Winegard LNA 100
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Apr-2019, 11:01 PM   #60
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 183
OK, one last question, do you know the model of distribution amp?
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC