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Old 31-Mar-2017, 10:39 PM   #1
sudheeshb
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Need help with Reception!

Hello,

TvFool report is available here. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a42cb691d277

I recently cut cord and currently using ClearStream 4V antenna. This antenna comes with VHF channels also. I live in the ground floor of an apartment and the antenna is placed in patio. I get pretty good reception of all the UHF channels except following.

1. KPIX ( 5.1 ) - Works most of the time.
2. ABC Channel ( 7.1 ) - VHF . Spotty reception works ok some times.
3. PBS ( 9.1 ) - Spotty reception works ok some times.

Is there any thing which I can do? The cable length is around 20 feet. I used
Winegard LNA-200 Boost XT Digital HDTV Preamplifier also. It doesn't make much difference.

Any help appreciated?. I am open using one more VHF antenna if it improves reception.
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Old 1-Apr-2017, 12:14 PM   #2
Jake V
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Your signals are already strong, so I'm not sure why you would need an amplifier.

What direction is your antenna aimed?

What does you antenna "see" when it looks in the direction its pointed? Buildings? Trees? How far away are they?

I would not have used an antenna like the ClearStream 4V for that plot. It has a narrow beamwidth. An antenna like the ClearStream 1V or 2V aimed north would likely have gotten you the channels at 11 degrees and 306 degrees. If your antenna is pointed north-ish and there is nothing in the way to block signal I would experiment by removing the amplifier and disconnecting one of the two UHF antennas and pointing it north to see what you get.
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Old 1-Apr-2017, 1:33 PM   #3
ADTech
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I can almost guarantee that the signal path original poster's patio antenna mounting location is completely blocked by concrete and steel buildings, perhaps his/her own dwelling, and that the odds of success are minimal, at best, unless persistence and luck comes into play.

Sorry to have to be so pessimistic, but I've seen similar situations so many times that I don't see many options.

Think if the situation this way: If you were trying to observe a sunrise or sunset (TV signals come from points on the horizon) and your only possible location is in a fully enclosed courtyard, how much of the sunrise/sunset would be apparent? Sure, there will be some light that comes in from overhead from atmospheric scattering and diffusion that makes it down into the courtyard, but the effect is completely lost. TV signals behave pretty much the same. If they cannot make the trip to the location where the antenna is at, then reception will be ineffective. An amplifier will only help preserve whatever signal comes off the antenna, it won't re-create signal that has been lost.

Please note that all of the listed channels are either UHF-only or have both UHF and VHF signals available. KGO operates a UHF 35 translator from Fremont that provides some measure of fill-in coverage to the South Bay area since their VHF signal on 7 is pretty useless to all but roof-mounted VHF antennas in that area. The original poster would have to dig into the TV set's diagnostics menu to see if it will tell which KGO signal has been tuned in. Same for NBC as it's available both on VHF (12) and on KSTS (UHF 49).

If a permissible mounting location can be found that avoids whatever obstacle is in the way in the direction of the desired signals, that would be the location where the antenna should be placed. Otherwise, it's a wild hunt for what whatever signal can be found.

Good luck!
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Last edited by ADTech; 1-Apr-2017 at 1:47 PM.
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Old 1-Apr-2017, 3:24 PM   #4
sudheeshb
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Thanks for the useful information. I didn't know that KGO and NBC are available in both VHF and UHF!. Thanks for the tip.

Looks like my TV is tuned for 7 ( ABC VHF ) instead of 35 ( UHF ) by default. When I press channel number 35 it goes automatically to 7. I will dig deep into this. I have two tuners ( Samsung TV ) and HDHomeRun. Will have to do some googling to understand how to tune the channel for UHF only.

I have used the amplifier because I am sending the signal from the antenna to a TV and HDHomeRun device. Do you think amplifier is not needed?

Meanwhile if you have any suggestions, please let me know.

Last edited by sudheeshb; 1-Apr-2017 at 3:36 PM.
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Old 1-Apr-2017, 3:43 PM   #5
ADTech
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The test on your remote where you punched in "35" and it tuned to 7.1 indicates you're tuned into the UHF channel which, unfortunately is a 15 kW low-power UHF which limits it's ability to penetrate to impaired locations. The TV set performs the translation if the relationship was programmed in during the auto-program. This does not apply to the NBC station, different logic applies for it. Some tuners, in their diagnostic screen, will explicitly identify the operating frequency which would be definitive.

Is my hunch regarding your surroundings correct? If so, I've offered my best advice already. Unless someone else has additional ideas, your reception is what it is due to your surroundings.
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Last edited by ADTech; 1-Apr-2017 at 3:46 PM.
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Old 1-Apr-2017, 4:16 PM   #6
sudheeshb
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Your hunch about the surroundings are correct. There are lots trees , building etc on the way which can block the signals!. I understand there is no easy way to get ABC :-(. I will still have to keep my playstation vue in that case.
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Old 1-Apr-2017, 7:34 PM   #7
sudheeshb
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Some more update.

I disconnect of UHF antenna to make similar to ClearStream 2V as Jake suggested. Looks like reception is improved for KPIX and PBS. Not confirmed yet as I will have to observe for some more time. for ABC is still not working. ABC is in fact using channel 35 ( confirmed using the physical channel number in the TV )as ADTech mentioned.

The only issue seems to be the reception of ABC channel and I understand there is easy solution for this at this moment.
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 6:48 PM   #8
sudheeshb
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When we say antenna needs to pointed at 306, what does it mean exactly?. Does it mean the 8 shaped element ( Clearstream 2C ) should be directly facing the tower?

I get best reception when the 8 shaped is pointed ( facing ) at around 270 degree
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 8:28 PM   #9
rabbit73
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Yes, the figure 8 faces the tower, and the wire reflector is the rear of the antenna.

If the antenna was outside and in the clear, the antenna should face 306 degrees magnetic, but I doubt that any direct signal can get to your antenna, only reflections. In that case, the antenna should be aimed at the best reflection.

Use the signal monitor of your HDHR to check signal strength, signal quality, and symbol quality. You want the signal quality (SNR) as high as you can get it, and symbol quality at 100% (no uncorrected errors).

If you are willing, you can send me the coordinates of your antenna so that I can see the green signal lines on the satellite view.

There are two views available, bird's eye and vertical. The cursor shifts a little when you change from one to the other. You can move the cursor by drag and drop; the coordinates below the map will change as you move the cursor.

You can do the map here:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sudheeshbTVFmapBE.JPG (95.2 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg sudheeshbTVFmapVERT.JPG (88.7 KB, 114 views)
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 9:10 PM   #10
sudheeshb
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Thanks for the informative reply.

Antenna co-ordinates are below.

The tvfool report link is available in the first e-mail thread.

Meanwhile, I will try to find the signal strength using HDHR signal monitor and do the mapping.

Last edited by sudheeshb; 2-Apr-2017 at 9:49 PM.
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 9:46 PM   #11
rabbit73
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Ooops, I should have said coordinates by PM to protect you.

Thank you for the coordinates; you can delete them now if you so desire.
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 9:56 PM   #12
sudheeshb
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OK. Edited the post!.

How do I find out where the best reflection is?. Is it just via trial and error?. The HDHR Signal monitor shows good signal quality for many of the channels that I need. But as expected the Signal quality is always bad for ABC, PBS etc. I guess I have to place the antenna at different locations and monitor the signal quality/strength?
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 10:47 PM   #13
rabbit73
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Thank you for the edit.

I do see a building in the signal path, which would account for the different azimuth. The signals try to sneak around and through as best they can.

Quote:
How do I find out where the best reflection is?. Is it just via trial and error?.
Yes
Quote:
I guess I have to place the antenna at different locations and monitor the signal quality/strength?
Exactly

I have been making tests with an indoor antenna and have found that antenna placement is very critical because of the reflections that make hot spots and cold spots.

I'm using a GE attic antenna indoors on the ground floor with buildings and trees in the signal path. My report is similar to yours but of course the signals are much weaker inside. I have a VHF-High channel 13 that has a listed strength almost as strong as the UHF channels, but the GE antenna has much less gain for VHF because it is just a folded dipole for VHF-High; UHF is a 4-element beam.



I use the Diagnostics Screen of my Sony to monitor signal strength, SNR, and uncorrected errors. Notes and picture of antenna added.



I calibrated the signal strength scale with my signal level meter, so I know what the readings mean.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sudheeshbTVFmap3.JPG (97.9 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg MyReportsnip2.JPG (73.6 KB, 475 views)
File Type: jpg SonyDiagScrGE34792.jpg (189.4 KB, 460 views)
File Type: jpg SSCHART KDL32R400A.JPG (118.4 KB, 110 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Apr-2017 at 2:26 PM.
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Old 2-Apr-2017, 11:17 PM   #14
sudheeshb
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OK. Thanks for the details. I will play around with my antenna positioning to find the best spot.
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