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Old 26-May-2016, 6:47 PM   #21
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to be continued as time permits
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Old 26-May-2016, 7:14 PM   #22
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Is that it?
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Old 26-May-2016, 7:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
BTW, Array #2 is functional, but some technical issues have to be solved. I combined array 1 & 2 and got real CH 8 (10.1) 12.1, 18.1, are clear, anything higher, no lock or UHF was spotty, quite Pixelated.

I split the signals and attached array#2 to RF Input #2. Horrible. Not getting anything from Milwaukee going into Input 2 on my TV.

Plugged array#1 into Input#2, No stations, looks like a problem with Input 2, Hmmm, when I had Cable TV on that input, it was fine. I'll revisit that later. Maybe I'll try my Zenith or Tivax tuners.
Something is not right. What model is your (Toshiba?) TV?

Is input #2 only for cable and not antenna?
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Old 26-May-2016, 8:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
I'm sorry I did not specify but I cannot look at any photos whatsoever.

The pics you put up we're very good thank you.

I appreciate what you've done so far, and to update you from my last private message, I am making a list of what channels I can get and how strong the signal appears. I spent quite a lot of time checking signal station by station as I tweaked the rotator on the signal meter on my Toshiba projection TV.

The Chicago stations were consistently above 88% and some stations are at 90%. Interestingly, the station that were strongest were the Spanish speaking stations like Telemundo and Univision.

Milwaukee stations work mostly there above 75% and as high as 86%. There were some stations of lower power and I couldn't get a lock on them even to find out what they were. My TV doesn't give you an actual Channel count when it's done scanning. It's simply just goes back to the previous menu item. I didn't bother counting them.


Also, I was able to hook up my Zenith tuner. I first used it last night comma and I scanned with both antennas combined and I believe I got somewhere upwards of 90 channels or sub channels. It was raining at the time. Milwaukee VHF real Channel 8 (10.1 virtual) was coming and going also. In the morning it was probably the strongest channel I had from Milwaukee.

Yesterday morning the skies were clear and it seemed that I had more TV stations at a stronger strength than I did last night as the rain clouds came in. I know atmospheric conditions can cause issues so I don't feel like it was a fair comparison. Tonight I will rescan the TV without the tuner and then I will install the tuner and re-scan like that. I was wondering if I could put a splitter at the antenna signal and have one signal go directly to the TV and one signal go directly to the tuner. I feel like the quality of picture with the Zenith tuner is not as good as when I'm looking at the TV with the antenna plugged in directly. I also have my Tivax tuner I have not used on this TV.

Alternatively, I have a Radio Shack distribution amp with 4 outputs I will probably end up using once I feel everything is working good with one TV. What I was contemplating was running the antenna leads directly into the distribution amp.When everything is working well I will spread the signal around the house and begin the process of "cutting the cable".

Also I want to thank you and the others who have begun to contribute in this thread. It's a good feeling.

Thanks, Bob
Oh, OK. Does that mean you can't see any photos at all in posts 1-9?

Can you see the photos in posts 17-22?

This is turning out to be harder than I thought it would be. It looks like you are not allowed to see any attachments or any images derived from attachments.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 27-May-2016 at 2:53 AM.
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Old 27-May-2016, 12:11 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
Okay I can see everything I mean all pictures since post number 17, so whatever you have done keep doing it.
I'm only using my image host and not using any images from my list of attachments for this forum.

more post #8 images



Bad signal:



Good signal:



Dual signal bars:



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Old 27-May-2016, 12:26 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
I will try to get the Toshiba model number for you when I get home. It is a projection TV bought in around 2001 or two I think.

I can tell you antenna input 1 and input 2 both have an option to go with antenna or cable. Unfortunately the Zenith tuner box that has only RF output and RCA red white and yellow.

Thanks Bob
Quote:
Also, I was able to hook up my Zenith tuner. I first used it last night comma and I scanned with both antennas combined and I believe I got somewhere upwards of 90 channels or sub channels. It was raining at the time. Milwaukee VHF real Channel 8 (10.1 virtual) was coming and going also. In the morning it was probably the strongest channel I had from Milwaukee.
Very good, Bob.

How did you connect the Zenith to the TV?
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Old 27-May-2016, 8:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
The Toshiba TV is a Theater Wide HD Model # 57H93 Chassis# TAC0361 manufactured August 2003.

I had thought I bought it earlier.

Oh yeah, Using Coax for all connections, either Zenith of rooftop antennas.

Anyhow, I split the combined North/South signal so I can switch back and forth between both between input 1 & 2 on the TV. One splitter output goes to the Zenith tuner and one goes directly to the TV.

It appears that after rescanning the Zenith and the TV, both inputs are working with the Zenith. I put the Zenith on Input2 and the TV antenna on Input 1.

Here is what I found. The definition is noticeably better with the TV tuner. The Zenith DTT-901 doesn't have the quality picture of the TV. Details appear more fuzzy using the Zenith tuner. I see a difference as I switch between inputs.

I was hoping the Zenith would work better as it is a more recent device, but I guess I don't have to have it. I decided to switch the Zenith over to input 1 on the TV and the picture quality appeared the same as on input 2.

Here's the funny part. Just like I mentioned before, input 2 did not respond to the combined (N-S) antenna signals, just a whitish static on the screen.
Input configuration shows both inputs as "antenna". The other choice is, of course "cable".

So, I have no idea why input 2 works great with the Zenith tuner and doesn't work with the antenna directly.

At any rate, I may be ready to distribute the signal to different rooms in the house.

I have a distribution amp, a Radio Shack "Bi-Directional Cable Amplifier" #15-1197. It has four outputs. Should I just use it now?, or use a one in-four out splitter and risk the higher loss factor?

The longest cable to the master bedroom will be approx. 35 feet. To the kids room about the same. Another to the Toshiba Projection screen maybe ten feet, the same for the kitchen TV. .

G'night, Bob
Thanks for the report.
Quote:
Here is what I found. The definition is noticeably better with the TV tuner. The Zenith DTT-901 doesn't have the quality picture of the TV. Details appear more fuzzy using the Zenith tuner. I see a difference as I switch between inputs.
That is normal. The output of the Zenith is SD not HD. The difference is easy to see with a large screen. The Zenith also has composite output, but it doesn't have component output for better quality. Your TV will accept either. You would need a set top box with HD output via component cables.
Quote:
I have a distribution amp, a Radio Shack "Bi-Directional Cable Amplifier" #15-1197. Should I just use it now?, or use a one in-four out splitter and risk the higher loss factor?
Try it with a passive (non-amplified) splitter first and let your signal strength readings be your guide. With digital, you either get it or you don't. You will soon find out how weak the signal can be and still have satisfactory reception.

If you need a newer distribution amp, try the Channel Master 3414.

Quote:
I was wondering if I could put a splitter at the antenna signal and have one signal go directly to the TV and one signal go directly to the (Zenith) tuner.
You could do that, but why would you want to? The only reason to use a separate tuner is if combining the two antenna systems doesn't work and you lose channels.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 27-May-2016 at 9:58 PM.
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Old 27-May-2016, 10:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
Thanks for the pics Bob.

The TB-105 bearing is no longer available, so Bob has spent a lot of time perfecting his bearings.

His photo #7 of 19 edited to show close up of both antenna systems. Very impressive, Bob:

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Old 3-Jun-2016, 1:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
An update for you. Well, I will claim success. Depending on which TV I check, most Full power signals from Milwaukee and Chicago are over 95%. MY Bedroom 36" Toshiba Regza seems to have the best picture and the highest signal %. I have seen many Chicago stations peak at 99% With SNR in the 30's. Milwaukee is close on most channels.

I have Dropbox attachments for you from my Kitchen Toshiba 19" (not a Regza as I previously thought). Later I will take pics from my 36" as it seems to have a more accurate channel ID in the signal meter.

As seen in my pics, the signal meter doesn't always get the virtual channel right.

A good example is real channel 44. After a scan, if the TV tuner is on 7.1 the signal meter correct displays virtual channel 7.1 on real channel 44.

Change the TV tuner to any other channel. For example, using the remote to check real channel 45, it correctly displays virtual channel 44.1. Switching back to real channel 44, the signal meter now displays virtual channel 44.1 also.

I re-checked it this morning, If the TV is already on 7.1 at the time the signal meter is checked, it will show displays virtual channel 7.1 on real channel 44. If TV is not on 7.1 on real channel 44, the signal meter now displays virtual channel 44.1.

I noticed also, that the signal strength changes. I have some pics of that in the Dropbox folders. This is repeatable.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/avqb5kwiz8...Meter.zip?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gjv0tkxyqw...Meter.zip?dl=0

I did do a double re-scan more than once.

For the record my 36" Regza does not do that, at least with real channels 44 & 45. I am still researching the other channels, but it appears to be an issue with the TV.

Also the 36" TV pulls in 93 channels compared with the 19" which pulls in 77-80 channels. I think both TVs get more channels at night.

All in all, whether a TV issue or not, the problem seems to be with the signal meter as the tuner seems to pull the right channels when selected.

My older big projection TV has a primitive signal meter and does not show SNR, only % of strength.

Since the antennas are up, I feel that they are good, including the RCA PREAMP1's in both arrays. I only say that because I get strong VHF and UHF from Chicago and Milwaukee.

I'll keep you updated. So far I still excited about what I have and what it does and owe part of it to you.

Thanks, Bob
Thanks for the update..

It looks like you have reached your goal, Bob; well done!

Glad that we were able to help you.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...51346a60b4196b
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Old 3-Jun-2016, 3:35 PM   #30
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Good job, Bob.
And you haven't even sniffed for Michigan, or Indiana, yet.
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Old 6-Jun-2016, 12:38 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by bobsgarage
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=9234

In the link above I see that somebody is at least correcting some of the database stuff, so that means somebody must still be working there at TV fool. Do you know who to contact there.

I can't believe I went through a whole antenna question and answer session got it installed and working without even being a member. Is it possible to contact somebody through the database update heart to find out why members aren't getting approved?

Thanks, Bob
Quote:
Do you know who to contact there.
No, I'm just another member.
Quote:
I can't believe I went through a whole antenna question and answer session got it installed and working without even being a member.
As far as I'm concerned, you are a member because you have made a useful contribution to the forum.
Quote:
Is it possible to contact somebody through the database update heart to find out why members aren't getting approved?
I wouldn't know how to do that. I already posted a thread asking that question; it didn't work.

What's going on at tvfool?
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15920
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Old 7-Jun-2016, 2:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage
Wind affects on antenna array & mast

It was windy yesterday, but hardly as strong as the wind in the videos sent to you a month ago. Still, the amount of movement was negligible:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pphuw3nlya...0gust.MTS?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jxi2khfyt...ctive.MTS?dl=0

Next time we get heavier winds, I'll get some video again. For now, this was one of the reasons for the thread you made for me.

About the database forum. Could you please post a question there about membership approval? At least someone will read it. Maybe different administrators can contact the ones who are responsible for approval?

Thanks, Bob


Thanks for the report, Bob.

The masts look much more stable now in a strong wind.
Quote:
Could you please post a question there about membership approval?
I'll try, but I doubt that it will do much good.
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Old 13-Oct-2016, 5:00 PM   #33
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Sniffing across Lake Michigan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereocraig View Post
Good job, Bob.
And you haven't even sniffed for Michigan, or Indiana, yet.
Hi Craig, now that I'm a member after a few months of waiting, I wanted to respond to your "sniffing" suggestion.

I have sniffed to across the lake to Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, etc, no good. I rotated the tallest antenna (91XG & 30-2476) East and slowly rotated from SE to NE and had no such luck. I even rotated the the lower mast east (HDB91X & 30-2476) with no luck. Finally I combined both masts, which I didn't expect any results from, but hey, it didn't hurt anything. NO luck.

I have an Oak tree of my own and others in the near proximity exactly in the whole 3 to 160 degree ie. almost due north to due south range, so it will have to wait until after autumn, in the ice cold of winter.

Even then, in winter most Oaks retain some browned off leaf clumps on selected branches through out the winter and finally drop them in spring when the buds break. Still it should be a chance to "Sniff"

Of Indiana stations I get WYIN 56.1 76 miles out but it is in that narrow 164 degree direction as my Chicago stations. The antennas are shooting the gap between two trees. I am happy to get WYIN though, I like PBS and programming is a little different than the other PBS stations.

How about you? What luck have you had?

Last edited by bobsgarage; 13-Oct-2016 at 5:06 PM.
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Old 13-Oct-2016, 7:23 PM   #34
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Well Bob, not much has changed w/ my antennas.
Spent most of the summer preparing for my daughter's wedding and maintenance on my parent's farm.

I occasionally receive Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids, w/ an an occasional Green Bay. WYIN and WNDU, not so much.
I'll probably give up on Madison and Rockford for the time being.

The 91XG is probably the best I'll be able to DX with, until I can complete my mesh dish project and trim back some Maple branches.
I've made the driven element and shield for it and now need to fab a mounting bracket w/ swivel and maybe tilt.
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Old 25-Feb-2019, 3:58 AM   #35
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Update 3 years later !!!

Well, Lets try this again, took too long and got logged off!

Here's the update since 2016, I have been using both antenna arrays.

Reception has been good. Rotators are seized, with little hope of any help from Channel Master.


The "Milwaukee array" is not so tall about 15 feet from the roof peak.

The Chicago array is 35 Feet above the roof peak with a 10' tripod for stability at the base and guy wires with eyelet hooks into roof rafters reinforcements. Very sturdy.

The Chicago array is heavy. The mast is 1 3/8" SS 20 with waterpipe slid inside. Double wall if you will. On top are a Antenna Direct XG 91 and a Stellar Labs 30-2476.

Because of the height, I used 3/16 guy wires and a special custom bearing I designed. Today the wind was brutal. The leeward side 1/4" galvanized guy wires went slack, and the windward side held up well. Maybe I need to get all 4 guy wires tightened up.

Here is the Dropbox link for the videos I shot today during the 50+MPH winds. We had a gale warning today, 60MPH winds at the max.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xaxcunsq6...QWGtkrsYa?dl=0


My biggest complaint is that I want to combine both arrays easily. Using two boxes sucks and since I already use two boxes in my home theater, it's fine for me but a pain for all the other TV's in the house. I would like to have some kind of box that blocks unwanted weak signals from each direction. Maybe like a Jointenna. I have been told that there are companies that make them.

Any suggestions to any of the concerns I have?
Especially the two antennas into one input solution.

Finding a economical HD rotator would be nice too.

Thanks, Bob

P.S. Thanks to Rabbit73 for getting this post rolling. IN fact his help got mer through the whole project before I was approved to join TV Fool.

Last edited by bobsgarage; 25-Feb-2019 at 4:03 AM.
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Old 25-Feb-2019, 3:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsgarage View Post
Well, Lets try this again, took too long and got logged off!

Here's the update since 2016, I have been using both antenna arrays.
Hello again, Bob; good to hear from you.

A lot of my images aren't showing in this thread because my former image host, photobucket, refused to show them in posts unless I started paying them; I switched to another image host, imgur. Here are two photos of your antenna system that others might like to see:





Quote:
Reception has been good. Rotators are seized, with little hope of any help from Channel Master.
The CM rotators don't hold up very long; you would have to go to a ham rotator like the Yaesu G-450A Medium-Duty Rotator Systems G-450A, which would be more reliable but more expensive.
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-g-450a

Quote:
Here is the Dropbox link for the videos I shot today during the 50+MPH winds. We had a gale warning today, 60MPH winds at the max.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xaxcunsq6...QWGtkrsYa?dl=0
I see some still images, but I don't see a video.

Quote:
My biggest complaint is that I want to combine both arrays easily. Using two boxes sucks and since I already use two boxes in my home theater, it's fine for me but a pain for all the other TV's in the house. I would like to have some kind of box that blocks unwanted weak signals from each direction. Maybe like a Jointenna. I have been told that there are companies that make them.
Right from the start I tried to encourage you to stick with just one direction like Chicago to keep it simple, but when I saw that you were determined to have reception from two directions, I tried to help you with that.

There are other ways of combining from two directions, but none of them are easy. I can list them if you want to see them.
Quote:
P.S. Thanks to Rabbit73 for getting this post rolling. IN fact his help got mer through the whole project before I was approved to join TV Fool.
Thank you for your kind words; I was glad to be of some help
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Old 26-Feb-2019, 1:01 AM   #37
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Updates on my systems

Hey Rabbit,

Yes. You warned me! And you are right, and IMHO the system is overcomplicated.

But that's what I wanted!

A while back, some one offered to build me a "box" , he was out of Poland I think. He said it could allow only the channels I wanted from either direction, but I got busy and blew it off.

What ways do you know to combine and get the signals in good from both directions?

Also, for some reason the videos did not attach to the Dropbox link, I re-added them check it again when you can. Either link works, this is for your convenience:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xaxcunsq6...QWGtkrsYa?dl=0

Here's the infamous "Above the antennas" video with the old RS VU210XR:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhrya79180...ennas.mp4?dl=0

Better Video (2016) of the new array with the 91XG and the 30-2476:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jvdkuw1wr...20002.MP4?dl=0

Last edited by bobsgarage; 26-Feb-2019 at 5:06 PM.
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Old 26-Feb-2019, 2:36 PM   #38
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The European filter is a good choice. Yet be aware that many stations in Chicago and Milwaukee will be changing channels in October. I’d wait to do a custom filter.
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Old 26-Feb-2019, 5:05 PM   #39
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Euro Filter?

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Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post
The European filter is a good choice. Yet be aware that many stations in Chicago and Milwaukee will be changing channels in October. Id wait to do a custom filter.
Thanks Tower guy!

Yeah, heard that too. That's one of the reasons I didn't take it any further.

Any info on those European filters?
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Old 26-Feb-2019, 6:02 PM   #40
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The European filters come from Jan Jenca in Slovakia.
http://www.antenne-komponenty.eu/eng...ct/filtre.html
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