TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 13-Sep-2017, 8:14 PM   #21
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
I have never been able to get WTAE and WPNT used to come in but doesn't now.
WPXI only comes in sometimes.

WWCP from Altoona is pretty reliable and my only source for ABC.
WJAC from Johnstown is clear but loses signal more often.

I shouldn't be getting Steubenville stations but they are some of my better ones
WWCP and WJAC are coming from the SE, but you say your antenna is aimed SW.

I don't mean to be insulting, but which end of the antenna in the photo above do you think is the front of the antenna that you aim at the transmitters, the end at the left or the end at the right?

Please look at the photo in the PM (Private Message) I sent to you and tell me if I have the right house.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Sep-2017, 8:32 PM   #22
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
No insult taken.
I'm not the sharpest knife in this drawer.

I have always pointed the narrow end towards the signal.

In the picture posted above, the right side is W or wSW
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Sep-2017, 9:26 PM   #23
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
Also, if you look at the green lines in the picture you PMed, starting at the left.

The top left line is a faint green, then there are 2 solid green lines.

The second solid line is a close approximation to the direction my antenna is pointing
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Sep-2017, 10:51 PM   #24
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
No insult taken.
I'm not the sharpest knife in this drawer.

I have always pointed the narrow end towards the signal.

In the picture posted above, the right side is W or wSW
Good. Thank you for the clarification.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Sep-2017, 11:15 PM   #25
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Also, if you look at the green lines in the picture you PMed, starting at the left.

The top left line is a faint green, then there are 2 solid green lines.

The second solid line is a close approximation to the direction my antenna is pointing
That looks good to me. What confused me was there were no leaves on the trees across the road in the satellite view.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Sep-2017, 11:20 PM   #26
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
Hard to say when that image was taken
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 12:28 AM   #27
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
This is the image you said I could post, which shows the green signal lines:

__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 12:36 AM   #28
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
For anyone who may be interested, there are 3 green lines on the left of the picture.
One faint at the top and 2 heavier.
Including the faint line, the 3rd line down is a close approximation to where my antenna is pointing.

Whatever direction that is
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 12:57 AM   #29
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
I tried different antenna heights, and it helps with some channels because of the rough terrain:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg blackstoneTVFp2WPXI.JPG (92.8 KB, 106 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 1:02 AM   #30
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
Thank you.
Not sure what it's telling me unless the hills block or diffuse the signal?
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 2:46 PM   #31
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Not sure what it's telling me unless the hills block or diffuse the signal?
Yes, that is exactly what happens.

The tvfool software for a report doesn't know about the trees or other ground clutter; it uses changes in elevation along the signal path to predict what will happen to the signal on its way to your antenna.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2017 at 3:26 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 3:31 PM   #32
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
Is there a solution or something I live with?

In years past, WPXI came in reliably.
Now, maybe 50% of the time.

Also, up until a week or so ago, WJAC (Johnstown) and WWCP (Altoona) were also pretty reliable.

I can move the antenna slightly southward a few degrees and pick them up.
However, I lose some other stations.

I want my cake and eat it, too.

Last night I did a scan and got 31 stations.
Not all of them displayed well due to pixilation, specifically, WJAC.
WWCP came in well
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 6:38 PM   #33
jrgagne99
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canaan, NH
Posts: 65
I think you need to move the antenna around a bit (left, right, higher, whatever) to try and find better spots for reception. As rabbit will tell you, the best spot for reception is not necessarily the most convenient or aesthetically pleasing. It's easier with two people. One to hold the antenna and one at the TV checking signal strength.
jrgagne99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 6:50 PM   #34
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
Thanks, jrgagne99.

The antenna has been in that exact spot for 60 years.
If it was good enough for my dad, it should be good enough for me.

Just kidding.

When I replaced the mast a year or so ago, I increased the height a few feet
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 7:31 PM   #35
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Is there a solution or something I (can) live with?
Yes, but you will not like it.
Quote:
In years past, WPXI came in reliably.
Now, maybe 50% of the time.
The trees are growing.
Quote:
Also, up until a week or so ago, WJAC (Johnstown) and WWCP (Altoona) were also pretty reliable.

I can move the antenna slightly southward a few degrees and pick them up.
However, I lose some other stations.
Your antenna is very directional. If you aim it for the SW channels, the SE channels will be too weak. If you aim it for the SE channels, the SW channels will be too weak.
Quote:
I want my cake and eat it, too.
Of course, we all do.

You need a rotator (which you don't want) or two antennas, one for each direction.

But before you do that, you should try a preamp at the antenna, as suggested by jrgagne99 in post #2. A preamp at the antenna is much more effective than a booster down below.

How long is the coax from the antenna to the CM3414 in the basement?
Quote:
Although I agree that a rotor will definitely improve my performance, I am concerned about the second TV.

That is my wife's and we don't, usually, watch the same things.
If your wife's favorite channels are all in the same direction, just make sure her TV is connected to the antenna for that direction. If your wife's channels are in two directions, it gets complicated. You will then need two coax lines to her TV and an A/B switch. An alternative would be to connect the second antenna to a separate tuner, with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.

If there is only one channel from the second antenna, then it could be combined into one coax with a custom (expensive) single channel inserter.
Quote:
Last night I did a scan and got 31 stations.
Not all of them displayed well due to pixilation, specifically, WJAC.
WWCP came in well
For best results, the antenna must be aimed at the transmitter; splitting the difference will not work for you.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2017 at 8:03 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 7:54 PM   #36
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
Not arguing the point because I don't know but recent past results are different.
Just stating my personal experience.

I apologize and not trying to be obstinate.

Quote:
Your antenna is very directional. If you aim it for the SW channels, the SE channels will be too weak. If you aim it for the SE channel, the SW channels will be too weak.
That is one of the many things that confuse me.
Until a week or two ago, these channels came in adequately 80+% of the time.
I have not adjusted the direction in several months.

I know a rotor will improve reception.
But, how do I get performance from the 2 separate TVs that want to watch different stations?

For example one wants to watch WJAC and the other WPGH?

Another point is where the heck is north?
Apparently it moves around here on Peach Hill.

Just got my new better compass and anxiously went outside to get a true bearing of which way my antenna is pointed.

North moves 30-45 degrees while I'm holding the compass.

My best guess is I'm pointing 230 or so but who knows?
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 8:34 PM   #37
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Not arguing the point because I don't know but recent past results are different.
Just stating my personal experience.
I understand.

The change in reception could be for more than one reason. The antenna might not be doing as well as when it was new and the trees are growing higher.
Quote:
I apologize and not trying to be obstinate.
There is no need for you to apologize. We understand that you want good reception on all TVs, but there is no easy fix for reception from two different directions at your location.

Many of your signals are weak, which requires an antenna with a lot of gain. But, a high gain antenna is VERY directional.


Quote:
That is one of the many things that confuse me.
Until a week or two ago, these channels came in adequately 80+% of the time.
I have not adjusted the direction in several months.
Trees like to grow taller in the summer. If the reception gets better after the leaves fall, it was the trees. If it doesn't get better, then it might be the antenna.
Quote:
I know a rotor will improve reception.
But, how do I get performance from the 2 separate TVs that want to watch different stations?
By making sure that each TV is connected to the right antenna for that TV.
Quote:
For example one wants to watch WJAC and the other WPGH?
WJAC NBC is SE; WPGH Fox is SW.
Quote:
Another point is where the heck is north?
Apparently it moves around here on Peach Hill.
Just use the green signal lines on the satellite photo. They are oriented to true north, which is at the top of the photo.
Quote:
Just got my new better compass and anxiously went outside to get a true bearing of which way my antenna is pointed.

North moves 30-45 degrees while I'm holding the compass.
Something is affecting your compass, like metal or another magnet. It should be more steady than that. Keep in mind that the compass points to magnetic north. There is a difference of 9 or 10 degrees between true north and magnetic north at your location.
Quote:
My best guess is I'm pointing 230 or so but who knows?
The green signal lines know, use them as a reference with a landmark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 91XGpattern (3).jpg (151.7 KB, 48 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Sep-2017 at 3:05 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Sep-2017, 10:06 PM   #38
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 1,951
Can you give us a list of channels that are important to your wife so that we can see what direction they are in?

Here is a satellite image of your location with a 360 degree protractor to show azimuth directions of your signals:



Does that help?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg blackstoneTVFmap4.JPG (289.2 KB, 41 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Sep-2017 at 12:45 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Sep-2017, 1:04 AM   #39
blackstone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 21
My wife wants the 4 major networks.
We have several choices for 3 of them.

ABC is kind of skinny.

Me, I watch the "sub" stations.
I like to watch Comet which is only available on 6-3 and Cozi, Movies and Retro which is only available on 60-1, 60-2 and 60-3.

Quote:
Just use the green signal lines on the satellite photo. They are oriented to true north, which is at the top of the photo.
That's where I always thought North was but neither of 2 compasses point near there with any regularity.

I guess my magnetic personality affects the compasses.
blackstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 6:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC