New with Reception Question

[athiktos]

I've had an antenna for a while but my knowledge is very minimal. The general concepts I understand but I am looking to take my reception to the next level with help.

I have two DB4e's...I am wanting to use them in separate directions. Most of my reception (through trial) comes from the South towards Indianapolis or North towards Fort Wayne; depending on the day it can vary. However, I am using my antenna in the worst possible way--inside on the first floor. Surprisingly, and given my location, I am able to pick up 20+ channels (including sub-channels).

I live in a house that has a old tv tower cemented to the ground outside roughly 25ft high. I was considering placing both DB4e's up there as I know that is likely my best bet for reception. There is a wooded area directly to my South covering reception to the Indy area that extends above 25ft the tv tower line.

Here is my report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cb4a3a566dc7

My questions are:
1.) If I improve my antenna positioning outside, given the data, would I still be in a location that would require an amplifier?
2.) Would I be able to use antennas direct VHF Kit to pick up channel 13 (NBC) or is it likely out of reach?
3.) What would be the best way to connect the two separate DB4e antennas?

Thanks

[rabbit73]

Welcome to the forum, athiktos:

1.) If I improve my antenna positioning outside, given the data, would I still be in a location that would require an amplifier?

yes
Are you using a preamp now?

2.) Would I be able to use antennas direct VHF Kit to pick up channel 13 (NBC) or is it likely out of reach?

The VHF kit might not have enough gain for 13. You might have to combine the DB4e with an MCM 30-2475 or 30-2476 using a UVSJ.

3.) What would be the best way to connect the two separate DB4e antennas?

Combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions with a splitter in reverse, often doesn't work; you just have to try it. If it doesn't work, you need to keep the two antennas separate and use an A/B switch.

An alternative would be to connect the main antenna to the TV antenna input and connect the second antenna to a separate tuner with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.

[rickbb]

I would try removing the reflector from one of the DB4e's and aiming it slightly away from straight at the Indy channels. About SE or SSE is where I'd start.

With the reflector removed you will improve reception from the back of the array and by being slightly off from aiming directly at your main stations you can improve on reception from the sides.

If it doesn't work you can re-attach the reflector with sheet metal screws. Won't hurt the antenna at all.

[athiktos]

yes
Are you using a preamp now?

Thanks for the reply! I am not using a preamp. I have been doing a little research on amplifiers because I don't want to get the wrong one for my needs. I at least think I need a preamp over any other type of amplifier.

The VHF kit might not have enough gain for 13. You might have to combine the DB4e with an MCM 30-2475 or 30-2476 using a UVSJ.
Combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions with a splitter in reverse, often doesn't work; you just have to try it. If it doesn't work, you need to keep the two antennas separate and use an A/B switch.

For what it's worth, I receive channel 29 very well with rare interruption on the screen. Given my first floor, no amp setup, it is pretty much crystal clear all the time. Channel 13 is in the same location but the biggest difference I see between the two channels is the (NM) with 13 being 6.2 and channel 29 having a (NM) of 1.3. I understand it's optimal to have an NM of 0. Is this why you recommend the MCM's over the VHF kit from Antennas Direct?

An alternative would be to connect the main antenna to the TV antenna input and connect the second antenna to a separate tuner with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.

Thanks for options, I'll likely try your initial suggestions first.

Lastly, my brother is the one who gave me the 2nd separate DB4e. He moved to FL and didn't want to take it with him. He is back for a visit and he asked if I was using it...go figure. Since I haven't put it up on the TV tower yet, I am going to give it back to him. Would you suggest I get another antenna for a different angle outside of my DB4e and the VHF antenna aimed South?

[athiktos]

Originally Posted by rickbb

I would try removing the reflector from one of the DB4e's and aiming it slightly away from straight at the Indy channels. About SE or SSE is where I'd start.

With the reflector removed you will improve reception from the back of the array and by being slightly off from aiming directly at your main stations you can improve on reception from the sides.

If it doesn't work you can re-attach the reflector with sheet metal screws. Won't hurt the antenna at all.

Thanks, I may play around with that some before I put it up on the old tower.

[rabbit73]

Would you suggest I get another antenna for a different angle outside of my DB4e and the VHF antenna aimed South?

No, I think the DB4e and the MCM VHF antenna aimed at about 181 degrees magnetic and combined with a UVSJ (not a splitter) would give you a good selection.

However, if another direction would give you a channel that is important to you, then you would need a third antenna and a switch or a separate tuner.

If you want to experiment with removing the reflector, that might be an interesting experiment. I don't see anything I would want from the north, but it might give you two CBSs.

[athiktos]

The main reason I had been pointing to the North on occasion is because I sometimes get NBC channels (16 WNDU near Mishawaka or 33 WISE in Ft Wayne) for NFL games; I could pick those up with my UHF antenna. However, I lose ABC (6) when I do that. Removing the reflectors may help me pick up 33 or 16 NBC and keep channel 6 without having to invest in a VHF antenna. 16 and 33 are still pretty far away from my location and I don't think they will be very reliable even with the antenna higher and a preamp.

If I am pointing towards the South at 181 degrees only (with both UHF and VHF antennas), what type of preamp would be suitable?

[rabbit73]

Removing the reflectors may help me pick up 33 or 16 NBC and keep channel 6 without having to invest in a VHF antenna.

I think you should try it to satisfy your own curiosity; you will not be happy until you do.

Keep in mind that when you remove the reflector and make the antenna bidirectional you will lose about 3 dB of gain; there is no free lunch.

If I am pointing towards the South at 181 degrees only (with both UHF and VHF antennas), what type of preamp would be suitable?

A Channel Master 7778 or an RCA TVPRAMP1R.

The 7778 would require a UVSJ to combine the UHF and VHF antennas before the preamp.

The RCA is less expensive and has separate inputs for UHF and VHF antennas. But, it has some quality control problems including a history of problems with the separate/combined antenna switch. Sometimes the switch doesn't make good contact with the VHF antenna in the separate position. The fix is to combine the antennas with a UVSJ and connect to the combined input of the preamp.

[athiktos]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

I think you should try it to satisfy your own curiosity; you will not be happy until you do.

Haha, well put.

Originally Posted by rabbit73

A Channel Master 7778 or an RCA TVPRAMP1R.

The 7778 would require a UVSJ to combine the UHF and VHF antennas before the preamp.

The RCA is less expensive and has separate inputs for UHF and VHF antennas. But, it has some quality control problems including a history of problems with the separate/combined antenna switch. Sometimes the switch doesn't make good contact with the VHF antenna in the separate position. The fix is to combine the antennas with a UVSJ and connect to the combined input of the preamp.

Thank you very much. I will give this a try and let you know how it works.