TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14-Aug-2019, 6:35 PM   #1
Dagwood
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYS, Finger Lakes area
Posts: 69
Need help with maps . . .

I'm trying to help a friend find what is available where he lives. These maps and links are beyond confusing.

Here is the analysis, but I don't really know what I'm looking at. The coded colors are very faint and hard to decipher:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90384ce526cde4

Also, there is a way of making a side (profile) view of the terrain, etc. showing the signals as they go through the air. Somebody (Rabbit?) did this for me a few years ago and I'd like to get this for my buddy. But the myriad of links and unfamiliar terms has me lost.

Help?
__________________
Everything from the roof down to the TVs was installed new in 2011.
Dagwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Aug-2019, 7:18 PM   #2
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,518
Hello, Dagwood

Thank you for the report for your friend.

There is only one strong signal in the green, none in yellow, 4 in the red, and the rest in grey are very weak. Doesn't look very promising.



I can do a terrain profile for you. Please send me his address in a PM and tell me what channel it is for, so that it will be accurate.

Is his house surrounded by trees like your house is?
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Aug-2019 at 8:48 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 1:49 PM   #3
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagwood
Hi Rabbit, thanks for the help. He has a small antenna that someone gave him, and so far all he did was walk around outside with it trying to pick up anything -- with no luck.

I told him he will probably need a big roof antenna like I have.

What channel? I don't know, whatever he can pick up.

Yes he has trees, but mostly is down in a valley similar to me -- only worse.
Thank you for the additional information.

I looked at the satellite view. You are right; it does look worse than your location. He is surrounded by trees that will block TV signals:



and he is down a hill:



Even with a big antenna as high as he can get it, he will not be able to get much.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendTrees.JPG (80.4 KB, 318 views)
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendValley2.jpg (86.8 KB, 312 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Aug-2019 at 2:29 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 3:15 PM   #4
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,518
This is an image of his signal report:



The above report is based on his address, which is from a marker further down the hill.

This report is based on the coordinates of his house which is at the north end of his lot (I think), further up the hill; the signals are stronger:



This is the link for the revised TVFool report based on the coordinates of his house:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90386a1d9f6f12

This report is from rabbitears.info:



This is the link for the rabbitears.info report:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...&study_id=4518

He might have a chance of getting a few of the ones at the top if he uses a Solid Signal HDB91X or an Antennas Direct 91XG antenna and a preamp like the Antennas Direct Juice or the older Antennas Direct PA18.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendReport.JPG (153.8 KB, 304 views)
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendReportRev.JPG (179.5 KB, 306 views)
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendReportRevRE.JPG (105.3 KB, 292 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Aug-2019 at 5:57 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 5:47 PM   #5
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagwood View Post
Also, there is a way of making a side (profile) view of the terrain, etc. showing the signals as they go through the air. Somebody (Rabbit?) did this for me a few years ago and I'd like to get this for my buddy. But the myriad of links and unfamiliar terms has me lost.
There are several ways of looking at a terrain profile beween a transmitter and his location.

If you click on the rabbitears.info report for his location
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...&study_id=4518

and then click on the Transmitter Distance (Miles) for a channel, a profile for that channel will come up. This is what the WPXJ terrain profile looks like. The red line is the direct signal path blocked by terrain; the blue line is the probable signal path.



There is a profile available from TVFool, but it is no longer correct because the WPXJ transmitter moved when it changed real channels from 23 to 24:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dALLTV%26n%3d1

This is the WPXJ profile using other software:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendp3WPXJ.JPG (102.7 KB, 289 views)
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendp2WPXJ.JPG (116.5 KB, 275 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Aug-2019 at 6:30 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 6:00 PM   #6
Dagwood
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYS, Finger Lakes area
Posts: 69
So Rabbit, boiling this all down, what would he get with the biggest roof antenna with a booster and rotor?

Also, you got this for my location a couple of years ago. How did you generate it and can we get one for my buddy's house?


__________________
Everything from the roof down to the TVs was installed new in 2011.
Dagwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 6:37 PM   #7
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagwood View Post
So Rabbit, boiling this all down, what would he get with the biggest roof antenna with a booster and rotor?
We don't really know what he would get because the signal reports assume that the antenna is in the clear and there are no TREES or buildings in the signal path. He will just have to try it.

My guess is that he has a good chance of getting a few of the strongest ones at the top, but it isn't possible for me to give a guarantee.

Quote:
Also, you got this for my location a couple of years ago. How did you generate it and can we get one for my buddy's house?

I got that by clicking on that channel in your TVFool report. But, the TVFool reports are no longer accurate because there have been many changes from the Repack by the FCC.

WROC has moved to channel 21, but the transmitter is still at the same location. This is the profile by TVFool for his location:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dALLTV%26n%3d8

This is the WROC profile from the rabbitears.info report for his location by clicking on distance in the report:





Again, the terrain blocks the signal even before it gets to the TREES.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendp3WROC.JPG (41.0 KB, 257 views)
File Type: jpg DagwoodTVF friendp2WROC.JPG (116.7 KB, 258 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Aug-2019 at 7:26 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 6:50 PM   #8
JoeAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 374
Hi Dagwood! Hope you are enjoying your nice summer weather!
My experience tells me that reception will depend mostly on the
trees nearest to the home. I think the reports from TV fool and
Rabbitears are erroneous. In order of reception likelyhood:
1. WPXJ Batavia due to antenna height/distance
2/3 WHEC/WHAM due to hi VHF penetration
3-5 WROC, WUHF and WXXI due to proximity.
The rest:
WKBW/WGRZ due to elevation of transmitter site
Syracuse stations due to less dense trees in that
direction.
A large VHF/UHF antenna up as high as possible
will yield the best results. Possibly a VHF antenna
aimed at WHEC/WHAM and a UHF antenna aimed
at WPXJ/WKBW/WGRZ.
Finally, Have you gotten WROC, WXXI and WUHF
more reliably????
JoeAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 7:32 PM   #9
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,518
A big antenna for UHF and VHF-High like the Winegard HD7698P might pick up some of the Rochester VHF channels.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 8:52 PM   #10
Dagwood
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYS, Finger Lakes area
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
We don't really know what he would get because the signal reports assume that the antenna is in the clear and there are no TREES or buildings in the signal path. He will just have to try it.

My guess is that he has a good chance of getting a few of the strongest ones at the top, but it isn't possible for me to give a guarantee.

Again, the terrain blocks the signal even before it gets to the TREES.
Thanks for all your help, Rabbit. I will print some of these images and give them to him.

FWIW: He is a 78 year-old lunch buddy that lives a couple miles north of me. He had some analog reception back in the day but hasn't bothered with any of it since digital. But as your posts show, channel 51 was the strongest and he said he did used to get it.

Just recently, another lunch buddy gave him a small antenna and a good length of coax to try out. I told them both about this site and how well it can predict signal strength no matter where you live.

So now we know that he's out of luck, at least with this small antenna he has.
__________________
Everything from the roof down to the TVs was installed new in 2011.
Dagwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 9:14 PM   #11
Dagwood
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYS, Finger Lakes area
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
Hi Dagwood! Hope you are enjoying your nice summer weather!

My experience tells me that reception will depend mostly on the trees nearest to the home. I think the reports from TV fool and Rabbitears are erroneous. In order of reception likelyhood:

1. WPXJ Batavia due to antenna height/distance
2/3 WHEC/WHAM due to hi VHF penetration
3-5 WROC, WUHF and WXXI due to proximity.

The rest:
WKBW/WGRZ due to elevation of transmitter site Syracuse stations due to less dense trees in that direction.

A large VHF/UHF antenna up as high as possible will yield the best results. Possibly a VHF antenna aimed at WHEC/WHAM and a UHF antenna aimed
at WPXJ/WKBW/WGRZ.

Finally, Have you gotten WROC, WXXI and WUHF
more reliably????
Hey Joe! I hope all is well with you. Yes, the weather is great here -- for a while yet.

Yes, channel 51 from Batavia is his strongest signal, as noted in my post to Rabbit above.

As for me: I'm sure all you guys here are aware of the mandated changes some channels had to do recently. There was little to no warning for us -- all of a sudden no signal.

One of my weaker stations, channel 8, was out for days because they switched to partial power during the switch-over. But when it came back on, they are now one of my strongest stations. Something about the new frequency penetrating out farther.

One of the other stations had to put up a new antenna, which they had on-site, but the crane they had wasn't big enough for the job, lol. But they got through it eventually. They were at partial power also, but I could still get them off and on meantime.

Last point: A year or two ago I had posted about a signal problem I was getting ONLY with channel 13. Then I found that if I monkeyed with the coax terminal on the TV it would come in okay, and someone here said that yes, it's possible the problem could be the cable, even though it only affected one channel.

So recently I was having that problem again, but ONLY with the living room TV; bedroom was okay. So I replaced that length of coax and the problem went away.

You guys are amazing -- thanks again to all for the help.

PS: I have not gotten stuck on the roof again with wind blowing the ladder down.
__________________
Everything from the roof down to the TVs was installed new in 2011.
Dagwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Aug-2019, 10:34 PM   #12
JoeAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 374
Dagwood,

Glad to hear that your reception of Rochester, NY
stations has improved. Because all the stations are
so close together on Pinnacle Hill in Brighton, it really
makes things hard for the engineers of all the stations
in that location. We're baking here today..... Ah but
it's a dry heat, LOL

Joe in AZ
JoeAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-Aug-2019, 3:34 AM   #13
Dagwood
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYS, Finger Lakes area
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
Dagwood,

Glad to hear that your reception of Rochester, NY stations has improved. Because all the stations are so close together on Pinnacle Hill in Brighton, it really makes things hard for the engineers of all the stations in that location. We're baking here today..... Ah but it's a dry heat, LOL

Joe in AZ
Hi Joe, regarding my post above yours, and mandated changes to transmitters a few weeks ago, now we have this from channel 10.

I thought they would be done with all this, but apparently not. What's going on and when will it end?

EDIT, Thursday morning @ 8:11: Within a few minutes of 12:30 AM today, every single station went dead.

Quote:

August 21, 2019 01:53 PM

ROCHESTER, N.Y. (WHEC) Due to federally mandated frequency changes by the FCC, WHEC-TV, as well as all other Rochester television stations, will not be able to broadcast over-the-air Wednesday into Thursday.

Maintenance work will take place from approximately 12:30 a.m. to 5 a.m. Thursday.

There is a possibility that the work will take several nights over the next few weeks.

Your patience is appreciated.
__________________
Everything from the roof down to the TVs was installed new in 2011.

Last edited by Dagwood; 22-Aug-2019 at 12:12 PM.
Dagwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-Aug-2019, 12:45 PM   #14
JoeAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 374
There are not many good broadcasting option sites for
Rochester, NY radio and television. That is why Pinnacle
Hill is so crowded. That is why when one station has issues,
at times, all the stations must cease operations.....
WBGT, a low power station broadcasting
from NW of downtown Rochester is the only station I know
of that is still on the air. They are a My Network affiliate.
JoeAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 2:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC