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Old 3-May-2019, 2:40 AM   #1
kanjigirl
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Lost 2 Denver stations this week, help please?

Here's my report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038abdefeb1b4

We have a Clearstream 4 Ultra Long Range, installed I think in 2017.

6.1 (PBS) has been hit or miss for the last month, but we know they are upgrading their transmitter (http://www.rmpbs.org/rescan/) and have been able to get it back by rescanning, at least every couple of days. Now it won't come in at all.

Two days ago we lost 7.1 (ABC) which we've never had a problem with, since 2016. Rescanned several times since then and it's not coming in.

I just found this: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...tv-on-april-13

But we've had it with no interruption for years. Now it's gone and won't come back. We just ran a scan, usually we have about 60 channels but right now it's down to 40.
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Old 3-May-2019, 11:35 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjigirl View Post
We have a Clearstream 4 Ultra Long Range, installed I think in 2017.

Two days ago we lost 7.1 (ABC) which we've never had a problem with, since 2016. Rescanned several times since then and it's not coming in.

I just found this: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...tv-on-april-13

But we've had it with no interruption for years. Now it's gone and won't come back. We just ran a scan, usually we have about 60 channels but right now it's down to 40.
Hello, kanjigirl. I'm a little puzzled. They want you to rescan, but the references I found say KMGH Denver7 is staying on the same RF channel.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=KMGH

https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

This is an image of your report:



Here is a report from rabbitears.info that shows two ABC transmitters that will display 7.1 for ABC on your TV, KMGH and possibly KZFC-LP:



KMGH is on VHF-High real channel 7. Your antenna only has a simple dipole for VHF-High that doesn't have much gain.

KZFC has been an analog channel on 26:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...llsign=KZFC-LP

but they they have a construction permit for a digital transmitter on 26:

https://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?...ms&facid=67530

Maybe forum member Tower Guy can figure it out, he is a retired TV station engineer.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kanjigirlTVFreport5-3-2019.JPG (116.4 KB, 595 views)
File Type: jpg kanjigirlTVFreportRE5-3-2019.jpg (238.3 KB, 605 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-May-2019 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 4-May-2019, 12:58 AM   #3
JoeAZ
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Have you contacted KMGH, Denver's 7 to see if there are
issues on their end???? Ditto for your Denver PBS station.
Since you are considered "fringe" for most Denver stations,
any issues on your end or their end could be causing the
changes in reception. My experience tells me that since
both stations are telling you to rescan, it probably is on
THEIR end........ One or both stations may now be sending out
a weaker signal in your direction. That could be temporary or
it could be permanent.
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Old 4-May-2019, 2:37 PM   #4
Tower Guy
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I suspect a problem at KMGH’s LPTV station in Fort Collins. Both KMGH and the LPTV station would appear as 7-1. I doubt that your existing antenna is capable of picking up KMGH on VHF from Denver.
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Old 6-May-2019, 2:17 PM   #5
ADTech
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Do you have the C4 (UHF-only) or the C4V (which includes the VHF dipole that clips onto a reflector)?
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Old 6-May-2019, 2:45 PM   #6
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Do you have the C4 (UHF-only) or the C4V (which includes the VHF dipole that clips onto a reflector)?
Good question. I forgot to ask.
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Old 6-May-2019, 3:06 PM   #7
kanjigirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Do you have the C4 (UHF-only) or the C4V (which includes the VHF dipole that clips onto a reflector)?
I'm not sure, my husband placed the order for this antenna and doesn't have the paperwork. Could you tell if I posted a photo of it?
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Old 6-May-2019, 3:08 PM   #8
kanjigirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
Have you contacted KMGH, Denver's 7 to see if there are
issues on their end???? Ditto for your Denver PBS station.
Since you are considered "fringe" for most Denver stations,
any issues on your end or their end could be causing the
changes in reception. My experience tells me that since
both stations are telling you to rescan, it probably is on
THEIR end........ One or both stations may now be sending out
a weaker signal in your direction. That could be temporary or
it could be permanent.
I will today. PBS was supposed to be finished with construction May 1 but moved it back to May 20, so I'm not too concerned about that, but we've never had an issue with KMGH before.
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Old 6-May-2019, 3:14 PM   #9
kanjigirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post

KZFC has been an analog channel on 26:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...llsign=KZFC-LP

but they they have a construction permit for a digital transmitter on 26:

https://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?...ms&facid=67530
We've had 26 in the past I'm sure, but now we don't have that or 7.1.
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Old 6-May-2019, 3:47 PM   #10
kanjigirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post
I suspect a problem at KMGH’s LPTV station in Fort Collins. Both KMGH and the LPTV station would appear as 7-1. I doubt that your existing antenna is capable of picking up KMGH on VHF from Denver.
I just spoke to Denver 7, they say they're aware there are a few dead zones (N of Denver is one) after their changes on April 13 and they are working to get that fixed.
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Old 6-May-2019, 3:48 PM   #11
kanjigirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Do you have the C4 (UHF-only) or the C4V (which includes the VHF dipole that clips onto a reflector)?
This is the one we have:

Antennas Direct ClearStream 4V Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna with Mount - 70 Mile Range - C4-V-CJM
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Old 6-May-2019, 4:34 PM   #12
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjigirl View Post
I'm not sure, my husband placed the order for this antenna and doesn't have the paperwork. Could you tell if I posted a photo of it?
Yes, please do.

The "V" of the 4V would seem to indicate that you do have the VHF dipole for real channel 7, but we want to be certain.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 6-May-2019 at 4:36 PM.
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Old 6-May-2019, 7:36 PM   #13
ADTech
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If your antenna has the clip-on box with the black horizontal "rods", it's the "V" version.

I suspect that the problem with KMGH will easily be resolved with a simple channel scan once Scripps completes the channel 26 digital transmitter facility, KZFC-LP. It would be a good idea to ask the station the specific question as to when that facility will be on the air. That makes the requirement to receive VHF from Denver moot as the other two VHF stations have UHF channels that are carrying their programming.
Quote:
I'm a little puzzled. They want you to rescan, but the references I found say KMGH Denver7 is staying on the same RF channel.
That would have been a requirement only for those viewers who received programming via the channel sharing agreement with WZCO, mainly south of Denver. That signal on UHF 30 would not be expected to be usable in Ft Collins.
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Last edited by ADTech; 6-May-2019 at 7:41 PM.
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Old 6-May-2019, 8:53 PM   #14
JoeAZ
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It is interesting, make that strange, that the three Denver VHF stations
do not reach Ft. Collins as well as some of the UHF stations. All broadcast,
except KBDI, from the same general area.
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Old 6-May-2019, 9:14 PM   #15
ADTech
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It's not that the VHF signals don't reach Ft Collins, it's more that it usually takes a physically larger VHF antenna to focus reception of those signals.


Many customers are adverse to the larger physical size of the VHF antennas so there is a strong bias towards UHF-sized antennas. When it comes to the buyers at the large retail chains (except home centers), they pretty much won't even consider a conventional stick antenna to put into their stores due to the space required.
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Old 9-May-2019, 1:50 PM   #16
JoeAZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
It's not that the VHF signals don't reach Ft Collins, it's more that it usually takes a physically larger VHF antenna to focus reception of those signals.


Many customers are adverse to the larger physical size of the VHF antennas so there is a strong bias towards UHF-sized antennas. When it comes to the buyers at the large retail chains (except home centers), they pretty much won't even consider a conventional stick antenna to put into their stores due to the space required.
I agree with you regarding user bias towards smaller UHF antennas and
retailers biased towards smaller packaging. My observation that the
report listed KMGH, KUSA and especially KBDI towards the bottom.
THAT is what I found to be strange. The TV Fool and Rabbit Ears reports
are guides and not gospel, not cast in stone as to their accuracy.
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Old 9-May-2019, 7:25 PM   #17
Nascarken
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjigirl View Post
This is the one we have:

Antennas Direct ClearStream 4V Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna with Mount - 70 Mile Range - C4-V-CJM
It's a hi vhf dipole and very cheap made antenna Direct marketing should probably just give it out for free.CENTS you paid over a $100dollars for the
C4? That's only a uhf antenna you should have looked into a Winegrud we7550A,range of 70miles or a channel master cm-3011 range of 50miles combinations antenna set-up like the Fcc suggests in their
Website. And both of these antennas are small like the C4 junk!!

Last edited by Nascarken; 9-May-2019 at 8:16 PM.
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Old 9-May-2019, 8:32 PM   #18
Nascarken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
I agree with you regarding user bias towards smaller UHF antennas and
retailers biased towards smaller packaging. My observation that the
report listed KMGH, KUSA and especially KBDI towards the bottom.
THAT is what I found to be strange. The TV Fool and Rabbit Ears reports
are guides and not gospel, not cast in stone as to their accuracy.
Tv Fool report and Ribbit Ears info let's you know exactly where the BROADCASTING TOWER's are the rest is in the way of the land falls into play
That is where it depends upon the higth of your antenna set-up and your location of course.
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Old 10-May-2019, 3:03 AM   #19
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
My observation that the
report listed KMGH, KUSA and especially KBDI towards the bottom.
THAT is what I found to be strange.
The FCC TV Study software used by rabbitears.info to generate reports includes a correction factor for VHF signals to allow for the higher noise level on VHF.



Quote:
The TV Fool and Rabbit Ears reports are guides and not gospel, not cast in stone as to their accuracy.
Correct; the software used does have limitations. Also, the location accuracy of the TV Study software is not quite as good as the TVFool software; it's to the nearest 0.5 km.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-May-2019 at 3:09 AM.
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Old 10-May-2019, 3:32 AM   #20
OTAFAN
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So, if I'm reading your chart correctly rabbit73, obviously you can have a higher noise floor on VHF low particularly, and still receive a watchable signal than either VHF high or UHF? And almost the opposite for UHF?

Forgive my learning curve rabbit73. When I became a shortwave enthusiast years ago, the first thing I learned was as long as I get above the noise floor with my receiver, antenna setup etc., I could "catch" the signal I was looking for. And the quieter my noise floor the better for weak signal reception.

I presume similar for TV viewing? Thanks!
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