TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28-Sep-2017, 12:58 AM   #1
Hillbilly Hermit
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 6
Need help with DIY Antenna Design

Hey Folks, I live in the mountains of southwest Virginia. I plan to build a DIY antenna and would like input on the best design and size for my situation. My house is about 1600 feet elevation with nearby mountains that are are 3000 to 4000 feet high. If I cannot get direct signals, I am hoping that maybe I can get reflected signals. Any advice and help is appreciated. Dave
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TV Fool.pdf (209.7 KB, 696 views)
Hillbilly Hermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-Sep-2017, 7:42 PM   #2
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
Welcome back, Dave

I see you have a previous thread:
Can I get OTA TV at my location?
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15198

This is the image report that you gave in your previous thread:



Thanks for the signal report image for this new thread. I see that you have entered an antenna height of 500 feet. Do have a 500 ft tower at 1401?



This is a report at 20 feet based on the 1401 location in your image:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a49b16d0a52d



WCYB has NBC, CW, and Decades
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wcyb

WKIN is Me-TV, Grit, Bounce TV, and Heroes & Icons
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wkin

WJHL is CBS and ABC and will be moving to channel 9
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wjhl

WSBN has PBS Encore but will be going off the air because of repack
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wsbn

your report at 50 feet
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a42d0ed01454

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFpreviousThread.JPG (115.3 KB, 1584 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFnewThread.JPG (126.5 KB, 1581 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFnew20ft.JPG (65.6 KB, 1578 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFnew50ft.JPG (71.4 KB, 1562 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 29-Sep-2017 at 8:40 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-Sep-2017, 8:41 PM   #3
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
It is the real channel number that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51

The virtual channel number (like 5.1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays.

Quote:
I plan to build a DIY antenna and would like input on the best design and size for my situation.
A DIY yagi antenna for channel 5 would have elements about 6 feet wide; for 7 and 11, about 30 inches.

A ready-made antenna for VHF-Low and VHF-High would look like this:
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd8200u

this is their house brand equivalent
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HD8200XL
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 29-Sep-2017 at 8:48 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-Sep-2017, 8:47 PM   #4
Hillbilly Hermit
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 6
I believe channel 5 also broadcasts on a UHF channel. If I need 6 foot long elements and a 500 foot tower it sounds like its not going to be feasible.
Hillbilly Hermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-Sep-2017, 11:34 PM   #5
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
WCYB also has a transmitter on channel 29, but it is too weak for you even with your antenna at 50 feet.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-Sep-2017, 11:53 PM   #6
Hillbilly Hermit
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 6
Rabbit, I really appreciate your help. Is my situation hopeless to get TV OTA? Can you give me a scenario where I might be able to get a few channels (i.e. Antenna size and design). Reinvesting some money from the cable company to a big antenna might be worth it?
Hillbilly Hermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Sep-2017, 1:16 AM   #7
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
No, I don't think it is hopeless, based on your signal reports.

VHF channels are used for hilly terrain areas because VHF signals can make it over hills better than UHF signals.

I will work on a scenario and try to think of some inexpensive tests for you to make.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 30-Sep-2017 at 2:32 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Sep-2017, 1:50 AM   #8
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
Quote:
If I cannot get direct signals, I am hoping that maybe I can get reflected signals.
You might be able to receive WCYB and WJHL directly or from a reflection off the hill just north of the highway with the big Solid Signal HD8200XL antenna and a preamp.

For something smaller, you might be able to receive WJHL directly or off a reflection with the MCM 30-2476 and a preamp. The MCM antenna is inexpensive, but is on backorder. Put your name on the backorder list.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2476-/30-2476

redirects to Newark which is now combined with MCM
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...14_US%2Fsearch

Manufacturer: STELLAR LABS
Manufacturer Part No: 30-2476
Newark Part No.: 71Y5462

Quote:
Check stock and lead times
639 Further stock expected to ship on Oct 1, 2017
More stock available week commencing 1/1/18
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 30-Sep-2017 at 1:59 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Sep-2017, 6:02 PM   #9
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
This shows the hill just south of your location that blocks the WCYB 5 signal:



The WCYB signal coverage is very spotty in rough terrain:



Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFp2WCYB.JPG (113.6 KB, 1509 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFcovWCYB.JPG (91.2 KB, 1491 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFcovWCYBcu.JPG (91.8 KB, 1489 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Sep-2017, 6:32 PM   #10
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
The hill also blocks WJHL:



WJHL is weaker than WCYB:



Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFp2WJHL.JPG (109.4 KB, 1479 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFcovWJHL.JPG (92.9 KB, 1480 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFcovWJHLCU.JPG (98.3 KB, 1521 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-Sep-2017, 8:08 PM   #11
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
This is a contour map of the WCYB signal path and two hills:



WJHL signal path with hill coordinates:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFpathWCYB.JPG (160.8 KB, 2004 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFpathWJHL.JPG (182.8 KB, 1503 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 30-Sep-2017 at 8:40 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Oct-2017, 12:59 AM   #12
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
TVFool report if your antenna is on Hill A:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a48f7776b0d9



TVFool report if your antenna is on Hill B, which is closer to your house. The signals aren't as strong as on Hill A, but stronger than at your house:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4f2c4f2f960

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFantONhillA.JPG (132.8 KB, 1408 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFantONhillB.JPG (99.8 KB, 1470 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Oct-2017 at 1:23 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Oct-2017, 1:10 AM   #13
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,747
Oblique view looking North, showing your location and Hills A and B:



Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFlookingN.JPG (219.6 KB, 1490 views)
File Type: jpg Hillbilly HermitTVFhillReflWJHL2.jpg (197.8 KB, 1475 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Oct-2017 at 1:13 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Oct-2017, 1:41 PM   #14
jrgagne99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 244
What if he got landowner permission to put an antenna up in a tree on "Hill B", which is about 700 feet away. If he used RG-11, the losses even at the high end of UHF (700 MHz) would be around 20 dB. A CM-7777 pre-amp has 30 dB of gain, so it seems like this could work? I found a 1000-foot role of RG-11 for only $100. If he put in on "Hill A", the run is closer to 1000 feet but since the signals are about 20 dB stronger there, Hill A might be the better option.

Or maybe even the unmarked hill, (I'll call it Hill C), located about 1000-feet west of Hill B?

Possible coax source:
https://www.cablewholesale.com/products/coaxial-cable/rg11-bulk-...

Last edited by jrgagne99; 2-Oct-2017 at 2:01 PM.
jrgagne99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Oct-2017, 1:58 PM   #15
rickbb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 341
Either that or put up a dual antenna to capture and re-transmit the signal down to his location.
rickbb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Oct-2017, 2:25 PM   #16
jrgagne99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 244
Does anybody on the forum have direct experience with this approach?
jrgagne99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6-Oct-2017, 5:04 PM   #17
rickbb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 341
I've seen a post on it, someone did it for a location in WV i believe. I'll look around for it.
rickbb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6-Oct-2017, 5:13 PM   #18
ckwsp101_tv
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 39
Pretty technical

I'm just an end user

http://www.set.org.br/ijbe/ed1/06_IE...%20Antenna.pdf
ckwsp101_tv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6-Oct-2017, 5:20 PM   #19
rickbb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 341
Doesn't need to be that technical. It's basically just 2 antennas, one aimed at the towers, the other aimed at your house. Connected to each other with a short coax cable.

I'd try the bow tie style antennas with reflectors to block reception from the back side.

That is if you have permission to put them up on one of the hills.
rickbb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6-Oct-2017, 5:32 PM   #20
ckwsp101_tv
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 39
Sorry.

I not the OP

Just found the topic interesting.

See other post for my situation

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15276


Wish this idea was used by my now shutdown home owner's cable system.
Maintenance cost of the ridge head end facility forced the shutdown.
ckwsp101_tv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC