Need help!

[roundbox52]

I've moved into a new house that doesn't have any cable service and I'd like to keep it that way. I need help with this as I am clueless on the topic and all of the accessories that may be needed with an antenna.

I have a 2 story home with a tall attic. I plan to put the antenna in this attic. The roof construction is asphalt shingles over osb sheathing. Here is the report for this height: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2436de223fb9a

It also looks like most of the green channels will come in if I put an antenna behind the tv on the first floor, but am unsure if I will need a large antenna or if a small "flat" antenna will work for this height. I have vinyl siding over osb. Here is the report for this height: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243b217b47502

I will only have 1 H.D. TV.

Thank you in advance for any help.

[Tower Guy]

It's not as easy as you might think. I'm familiar with the area. You're on the downhill side of the Niagara Escarpment.

WKBW will be the hardest to pick up with a NM of 4.5. That's difficult to make reliable with an attic antenna.

The other hardship with Niagara County is multiple directions for Grand Island towers, vs the Colden transmitters, and the possibility of Canadian TV. (Note that CBLT (CBC) on channel 20 is not listed in the TVFool database.)

The UHF only antenna that will give the greatest flexibility is the DB8e. It has panels that can be splayed in two directions. If you used that for the Buffalo stations, you could add CTV on channel 9 with a second VHF only antenna (Y5-7-13) aimed at Toronto and a third VHF only antenna (Y10-7-13) aimed at CHEX in Peterborough for CBC. Couple the VHF antennas together with a Jointenna for channel 12 and then add the UHF and VHF antenna pair with a TVPRAMP-1R preamplifier.

If you want all the Canadian stations along with the US, consider a 7-51 antenna plus a rotator.

[roundbox52]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

It's not as easy as you might think.

You aren't kidding! Wow - that is a lot to take in. Yes - I am actually on the slope of the escarpment. If I were to put an antenna in the attic it would be approximately 30 to 40 feet below the top of the escarpment.

So I'm looking at 3 antennas and a couple of accessories... I'm almost at $300 for those. That will be a tough one to get by the wife, but may pay for itself within the first 2 years... The antennas will need to stay under roof as I won't win the argument for putting them on the roof.

Would the 7-51 antenna with a rotator pick up the same channels as the three individual antennas? It would be a little more of a hassle to tune into a station/channel, but would keep the costs down.

Thanks for the quick reply.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by roundbox52

The antennas will need to stay under roof as I won't win the argument for putting them on the roof.

Turning an antenna in the attic will require a big antenna and a big attic. For instance, the HBU-55 has a turning radius of 76", meaning that nearly a 13' diameter is needed to turn it. Eliminating the losses through the roofing material are more important than the extra height on the roof. You may find reception in the attic now, but loose it when there is snow on the roof. You might be lucky enough to aim through a gable end if you don't have aluminum siding.

The other tact is to try a smaller, cheaper antenna indoors and once it is obvious of the reception limitations, move it to an inconspicuous location on the roof that's not visible from the street. If you want to try it, consider the Winegard HD-1080. That antenna has VHF reception off the back that might pick up CBC on channel 12 while the UHF front side is aimed between the Buffalo UHF stations. You'll still need the preamp. You can try it without the rotator.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by roundbox52

Would the 7-51 antenna with a rotator pick up the same channels as the three individual antennas? It would be a little more of a hassle to tune into a station/channel, but would keep the costs down.

Efficient use of a rotator requires a TV set with scanning software that can add channels without loosing those that have already been found, or a quick finger on the rotator, turning the antenna an the exact moment necessary to get the antenna aimed in the right direction before the TV set gets to the channel. It would go like this;

Aim at Toronto for channel 9
aim at Grand Island for channel 14
aim at Toronto for channel 19 and 20
aim at Colden for channel 33, 38, and 39 and hope that 32 from Grand Island is strong enough to be tuned in
Aim at Toronto for the higher UHF channels and hope that PBS on Grand Island is found while aimed away

[roundbox52]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

nearly a 13' diameter is needed to turn it.

I didn't think about that, but I do have enough room up in the attic for it.

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

You may find reception in the attic now, but loose it when there is snow on the roof. You might be lucky enough to aim through a gable end if you don't have aluminum siding.

I also didn't think about the snow... Luckily I do have my gable ends facing north and south so pointing the antenna(s) toward the towers are mostly going to go through the gable ends which are also vinyl siding.

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

The other tact is to try a smaller, cheaper antenna indoors

I did pick up a cheap Winegard FreeVision FV-30BB Antenna from a big box store. Last night I went on the 2nd floor and held it up to the ceiling (which will be 9' to 10' lower than where it will be in the attic) and I received quite a few stations. I did have trouble with the signal quality of some - especially WKBW, WNYO and WPXJ.

What is a good signal strength that can be relied upon for quality television? Most were in the 40's and only a couple in the 70's. I'm hoping the higher I go the greater the strength.

Is this a good antenna? http://buffalo.craigslist.org/ele/4677507917.html
Its from craigslist in my area. I'm wondering if I can use it on the gable end facing the grand island and colden towers. It is in a fixed position, but I don't know if the angle of reception can pick both of them up. Does this make sense?

Thanks.

[timgr]

Here it is on the AD site - https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...v-Antenna.html - that's the retail price.

It's a nice antenna, but an older design. For used in perfect condition, half-new seems about right, so I'd price it initially at $50. There is a newer DB8e that is more sensitive. In 2009 (?) the FCC narrowed the part of the spectrum for TV, eliminating real channels 52-69. So any antenna designed for 14-69 has a wider bandwidth than needed, and is less sensitive than it might be without 52-69. And the DB8e has panels you can aim separately for wider coverage (at the cost of some sensitivity).

[Tower Guy]

The old DB8 is too directional to get Grand Island and Colden simultaneously.

[roundbox52]

So I went through the list of channels and nixed some from my list. Here are the real channels I would like to receive:

32,43,19,14,39,33,38,23,20 (not listed on tvfool), maybe 12 maybe 22 (both 12 & 22 have the same programming - one may come in better than the other)

It looks like all the channels are UHF except for 12 which has the same programming as 22. Do you all suggest only a UHF then? If so, what antenna would you suggest as all channels are within a 90 degrees, except 19,20,12 & 22 which are from Canada.

[tomfoolery]

Originally Posted by roundbox52

If so, what antenna would you suggest as all channels are within a 90 degrees, except 19,20,12 & 22 which are from Canada.

DB8e, with the panels opened only enough, and the pair directed to the SSW only enough to get the three stations you want at magnetic 210-211. Real 23 is going to be tough, and you need all the gain you can get in that direction.

You might get lucky and receive real 19 from Canada off the back, since it's pretty strong and LOS, and you can add a Y10713 aimed at 30 mag. for real 12, even after the fact.

[roundbox52]

Originally Posted by tomfoolery

DB8e, with the panels opened only enough, and the pair directed to the SSW only enough to get the three stations you want at magnetic 210-211.

What about real 33,38 and 39? Will directing both DB8e panels SSW still be able to pull these in you think?

What if I was to aim one panel at real 32, 43 and 14 and the other panel at real 33, 38 & 39?

Thanks

[tomfoolery]

Look at the reception patterns for various azimuth spread off straight-ahead. https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...V-Antenna.html Go to the 'Documents' tab, and download the Technical Data sheet. You can see how the gain pattern changes as you change the azimuth of one panel in relation to the other.

What if I was to aim one panel at real 32, 43 and 14 and the other panel at real 33, 38 & 39?

Worth a try. But I don't think you'll get real 23 (ION). All you can do is try. And be patient, trying different locations on the roof.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by roundbox52

Do you all suggest only a UHF then?

A UHF only will miss CTV on channel 9.

[roundbox52]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

A UHF only will miss CTV on channel 9.

I'm not in need of receiving channel 9.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by roundbox52

I'm not in need of receiving channel 9.

CTV carries different NFL games than Buffalo. This Sunday at 4 PM you'd get Jets vs Chargers on WIVB while CFTO carries 49ers at Chiefs.

[roundbox52]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

CTV carries different NFL games than Buffalo. This Sunday at 4 PM you'd get Jets vs Chargers on WIVB while CFTO carries 49ers at Chiefs.

Its something to think about...

OK - so thanks to everyone's help I'll be getting the DB8e - most likely from Walmart so I can return it easily just in case something doesn't work out good. Any other accessories I will need? I know it was suggested to get a TVPRAMP-1R preamplifier, is this required or can I simply add it in the future if the signals are weak. As a re-cap I will have 1 tv with approximately 70' of rg-6 cable from the antenna to tv.