Need some help with antenna choice & alingment

[Ric2L]

Hello

I recently decided to get rid of cable and go with OTA TV. Here is my signal analysis results. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b9436a40abb65

Right now I have a clear stream 2 antenna I purchased from Best Buy, I can pull in my local channels most of the time, but I loose signal for a couple seconds every 5 or 10 mins. on a couple stations. Most of the channels are to the north east except for FOX which is to the south east. Also, I can only pick up FOX on the TV in my bedroom (which is a newer Samsung 40" LCD). The older Samsung plasma in the living room won't pick up fox at all, unless I turn the antenna, thus loosing other stations.

I would like to replace this antenna with a better one and hopefully receive all channels on both TV's while not turning antenna.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Rick

Oh yea, The antenna is mounted about 30 feet in the air on a telephone pole right beside my mobile home.

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Is the antenna a CS2 UHF only antenna or a CS2V UHF/VHF antenna??

For the Testing of reception have only 1 Tv connected.

No splitters , No couplers , No etc. .

Connect a NEW Continues length of coax to the CS2 antenna and run the New Continues length coax through a open door or window , direct to 1 Tv.

Try aiming the CS2 antenna UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna at about 100 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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Digital Broadcast Tv Tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scan.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan.

http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf.

The Tv Must Channel Scan for the , ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels.

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If trees are close in the directions of reception , reception will not be so good.

If any other obstructions are in the directions of reception , reception will not be so good.

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If , WHTM , REAL VHF high band channel 10 ABC is not received reliably and W07DP-D , REAL VHF high band channel 7 Religion , is not received reliably.

Then install a , http://www.antennacraft.net , Y5-7-13 , VHF high band antenna aimed at about , 15 degree magnetic compass direction.

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Connect the CS2 and Y5-7-13 antennas together with a , EU385CF-1s
, UHF antenna , VHF antenna , combiner.

And run the New coax from the combiner direct to 1 Tv.


After installing the 2 antenna set up , Rescan for channels.

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Avoiding obstructions in the directions of reception is Important.

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What is reception like now??

[StephanieS]

Hello Ric2L,

Question: When you move your clearstream to magnetic heading 135 is FOX reliable on both TVs? I'm not worried about other signals dropping. I want to know if are able to get FOX reliably with the clearstream.

I'm setting a baseline.

[Ric2L]

Originally Posted by StephanieS

Hello Ric2L,

Question: When you move your clearstream to magnetic heading 135 is FOX reliable on both TVs? I'm not worried about other signals dropping. I want to know if are able to get FOX reliably with the clearstream.

I'm setting a baseline.

Yes, I was at about 120 to 125 degrees, turned to 135 and fox is on both sets.

This is my signal strength on my living room set.
8.1 NBC 3 Bars Out of 10
8.1 NBC 2 Bars
8.2 NBC 3 Bars
15.1 CW 2-3 Bars
15.2 CW 2-3 Bars
21.1 CBS 4-5 Bars
21.2 CBS 4-5 Bars
27.1 ABC 7 Bars
27.2 ABC 7 Bars
27.3 ABC 7 Bars
33.1 PBS 1-2 Bars
35.1 WO7DP 5 Bars
43.1 Fox 1 Bar
43.2 Fox 1 Bar
43.3 Fox 1 Bar

This is the best reception I have had as a whole so far. Would like to get all channels up to 7 or more bars if possible.

Thanks, Rick

[Ric2L]

I get FOX on both TV's with antenna at 135 degrees, not very strong signal on either though.

[Ric2L]

Here are the channels and signal strength of each channel with antenna pointed 135 degrees.

NBC 8.1 3 Bars out of 10
8.2 3 Bars
8.1 2 Bars
8.2 2 Bars

CW 15.1 2-3 Bars
15.2 2-3 Bars

CBS 21.1 4-5 Bars
21.2 4-5 Bars

ABC 27.1 7 Bars
27.2 7 Bars
27.3 7 Bars

PBS 33.1 1-2 Bars

W07DP 35.1 5 Bars

FOX 43.1 1 Bar
43.2 1 Bar
43.3 1 Bar


Would like to get 7 Bars or better on all channels if possible.

[StephanieS]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the added info. I'm concerned about your signal drops with your strong signals in the air, they should be reliable. Do you have trees or other obstructions in the antennas path? How long is your run of coax? How are you splitting?

Good to know FOX is reliable at magnetic 135. Is your Clearstream a Clearstream 2V by chance with the high-VHF elements that stick on each side?

I've looked at your TVfool plot several times and the things that jump out:
1. You have quite a few very good to strong signals in line of sight of you. Ought to be easy reception.

2. You need high-VHF (real channels 7-13) and UHF (channels 14 and up) support from an antenna. (Clearstream 2V?).

3. There are multiple headings you have to be aware of.

In your situation we have a wrinkle, in:

4. Some of your signals are terrain obstructed and are weaker and require a different approach than the signals covered in # 1.

2-edge signals on your TVfool radar plot means there are physical obstructions such as hills or geography which prevent a line of sight to the transmitter in question. This makes signals in these conditions bend around the obstruction and therefore may be a little unpredictable. Often times, a larger UHF aerial such as a DB8, Channel Master 4228 or U8000 with a larger surface area is suggested to help "grab" these signals.

Your issue is you have two different needs based on your signals. One for easy reception, one for a more hostile 2-edge condition.

If I were at your location I might purchase a Antennas Direct DB8e or less expensive Solid Signal HDB8X and give it a shot. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=db8e or http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=700112818417 This design is advantageous for situations such as yours as it allows you to orientate each half of the antenna to a desired heading to concentrate on two different sets of towers. For example, in your case, one half would be aimed at magnetic 50 for your stronger signals while the other half would be aimed at magnetic 135 for FOX. If that aiming doesn't work, you have have to tinker with it to find a "sweetspot."

Keep in mind both the DB8e and HDB8X are a UHF designs, so WHTM being high-vhf and real channel 10 would be one to watch closely for reliability. So far you seem to be doing fine with it with your current antenna, plus the signal is strong at your location. If reliability problems come up, adding a smaller high-VHF antenna and adding a combiner might be needed. This is less likely though and I won't go too much into it unless it becomes needed.

Your desire to get 7 bars on each signal might be a challenge. The green shaded signals are doable. However, as mentioned prior you have very different signal properties with your FOX affiliate. For FOX I may be happy with say, 5 bars and reliability while the others are 6 or 7.

Edit: Your TVfool plot is also resolving to a block level. Can you rerun at your specific address?

[johnodon]

Where is the antenna mounted? How high?

[stvcmty]

Your location is a challenge between the variations in terrain and the patch work of broadcast sites.

If it were still available and if multipath was not a concern, I would start with a winegard HD4400 pointed at about 86 (true) degrees (split the difference between CBS and FOX). I would then get a VHF only antenna and point it 31 (true) degrees for ABC. But given the 2 edge path for Fox and multi path from hills and valleys being a problem in the Harrisburg/York market, picking a 4 bay antenna because the spread of the headings for UHF stations fits in its half power beam width probably is not a good idea.

I think StephanieS’s recommendation of a DB8e is solid. https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...s/DB8E-TDS.pdf Looking at the gain versus azimuth for the elements various amounts off broadside, the DB8e gives two side lobes and a center lobe. That will match up nicely with your UHF group at 46 (CBS, PBS, NBC), CW at 87, and WPMT at 124. The real test would be if the broad beam width causes multipath problems.

At least your VHF situation is simple. You don’t need 8 if you get 49 well on UHF. 7 is cornerstone, so unless you want that, the only VHF you need is 10 from 31 which should be easy to do with any of the VHF only antennas (Y5-7-13 for example). Then the VHF only antenna can be tied into the DB8e with a UVSJ.

[Ric2L]

Originally Posted by teleview

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Is the antenna a CS2 UHF only antenna or a CS2V UHF/VHF antenna??

The Antenna is a CS2V

Originally Posted by StephanieS

Edit: Your TVfool plot is also resolving to a block level. Can you rerun at your specific address?

Rerun of TVfool plot http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b945f80eac441

Originally Posted by johnodon

Where is the antenna mounted? How high?

The Antenna is 27 feet above ground level




Wow, this is going to harder than I initially thought..... I will give this some thought this week and hopefully have a new antenna up by Super Bowl Sunday.

I have been reading the forums for ideas and suggestions and found this installers antenna. http://www.tripleplayantenna.com/ any thoughts on there antennas??? They are only about 30 miles from my location.

[Ric2L]

Originally Posted by StephanieS

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the added info. I'm concerned about your signal drops with your strong signals in the air, they should be reliable. Do you have trees or other obstructions in the antennas path? How long is your run of coax? How are you splitting?

Yes there are very tall walnut trees on property border to the north south and east. The coax run starting at antenna I have a 30' run to a three way splitter, same splitter that was used for Verizon Fios cable, the first split goes to my bedroom, 15' run; second goes to living room, 50' run; third goes to back bedroom, 70' run; the back bedroom is not is use at this time.

[Ric2L]

Well, I just ordered an http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=DB8E. I found a $40.00 off coupon on the web. antenna was only $89.99 w/free shipping. Hope this works out better than the CS2V. I'll Let you know when I get it installed. Thanks for the help.

[StephanieS]

Hi Rick,

Good to see you are making progress.

Teleview's suggestion of testing the reception/dialing it in with a single coax run into one TV is best. One single run - no splitters, amplifiers, preamps etc. - from the antenna to TV is what you want to do. This establishes a baseline for system performance.

This also gives you a clear indicator as you start splitting and adding things, you can identify what step is causing problems.

With a 3 splits going on, in this configuration I may purchase a channel master 3414 4-way distribution amp and yank the verizon splitter, just to try to offset the signal losses created in the signal split.http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master.../dp/B001PI09SE

Keep us up to date!

[Ric2L]

Well, I finally got my new antenna up, had to wait for some warm weather. Its been very cold here lately. Anyway, I now am getting 5 plus bars on all stations except FOX which is getting four bars consistently. ABC, which is my only VHF channel comes in the best at 10 bars!!! Now I just have to wait till the leaves are on the trees and see what happens then. Oh yea, I also added the Channel Master 3414-4 distribution amp, it was a great suggestion, thanks StephanieS.

Again Thanks to all, especially StephanieS. for all your help and suggestions. I could not be happier.

Rick