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Old 14-Apr-2019, 11:04 PM   #61
blackstone
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Channel Master 3414
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Old 14-Apr-2019, 11:40 PM   #62
Tim
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OK, great, thanks for answering all the questions. I think the best thing to do at this point is to obtain a UVSJ and rewire your system as I have shown on the bottom of the attached drawing. It will be real simple to do. You will be putting in the UVSJ where your combiner/splitter is currently located and replacing your distribution amp with the combiner/splitter (you can always put the distribution amp back in if you need to). You already have plenty of amplification with the preamps and the distribution amp might be overkill. I think the UVSJ has a good chance of resolving your problem.
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Last edited by Tim; 14-Apr-2019 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 14-Apr-2019, 11:58 PM   #63
blackstone
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Thanks for all your patient help, Tim.

Although there are 4 TVs, only 2 regularly watch OTA.
My son watches the local news on a 3rd but that's all.

I have 5 UVSJs ordered so will need to wait until they get here.

Could I replace the 3414 with something like this; a 4 outlet non powered splitter so all TVs had antenna access?
https://smile.amazon.com/5-2300-Coax...sr=1-4-catcorr

I really, really appreciate your help as well as everyone else.

Will check back after I get the UVSJ

Last edited by blackstone; 14-Apr-2019 at 11:59 PM. Reason: More
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 12:21 AM   #64
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Yes, the 4 port splitter would work fine.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 12:22 AM   #65
blackstone
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Thank you, again
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 1:08 AM   #66
rabbit73
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The LNA200 uses a power inserter, but the LNA100 does not use a power inserter. The USB power for the LNA100 goes directly into a connector on the amp housing.
http://www.winegard.com/help/images/8/8a/2452286.pdf

Some UVSJs pass power on the UHF side and some pass power on the VHF side. The Radio Shack and Antennas Direct UVSJs pass power on the UHF side. My guess is that the ASKA only passes power on the VHF side.

The location of the power inserter for the PA18 is critical. It might be necessary to use the ASKA UVSJ after the power inserter for the PA18.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...L_20130301.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
I don't know what power inserters are.

If it helps, the one on the DB 8E is an Antennas Direct Pa 18 preamp and the CM is a Winegard LNA 100
A power inserter is a device that allows you to put the preamp close to the antenna and the power supply inside out of the weather. The coax that carries the signal down from the preamp also carries the DC power up to the preamp.



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File Type: jpg Antennas Direct Power Inserter.jpg (77.4 KB, 163 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Apr-2019 at 2:04 AM.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 2:17 AM   #67
blackstone
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Thanks for that, Rabbit73.

I believe Tim's diagram shows the UVSJ after the power inserters for both leads.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 2:28 AM   #68
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Thanks for all your patient help, Tim.

Although there are 4 TVs, only 2 regularly watch OTA.
My son watches the local news on a 3rd but that's all.

I have 5 UVSJs ordered so will need to wait until they get here.

Could I replace the 3414 with something like this; a 4 outlet non powered splitter so all TVs had antenna access?
https://smile.amazon.com/5-2300-Coax...sr=1-4-catcorr

I really, really appreciate your help as well as everyone else.

Will check back after I get the UVSJ
I have revised the diagram to show the 4 port splitter.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 2:33 AM   #69
blackstone
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Thank you, Tim.

Looking forward to receiving the parts and testing this
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 1:34 PM   #70
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One last question, please?
(Until the next last question)

Rabbit73's post just made me wonder something.

I have an Antennas Direct Combiner. Also located my second PA 18 preamp.

Would the Antennas Direct combiner work and not need the UVSJ?
I would put the Pa 18 pre amp on my VHF and eliminate the Winegard.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 1:58 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Thanks for all your patient help, Tim.

Although there are 4 TVs, only 2 regularly watch OTA.
My son watches the local news on a 3rd but that's all.

I have 5 UVSJs ordered so will need to wait until they get here.

Could I replace the 3414 with something like this; a 4 outlet non powered splitter so all TVs had antenna access?
https://smile.amazon.com/5-2300-Coax...sr=1-4-catcorr

I really, really appreciate your help as well as everyone else.

Will check back after I get the UVSJ
Yes, please get back to us after you've done that work. for me I'm interested to see how pre-amping the signals before combining them works. If it doesn't work try combining with the UVSJ and then pre-amping them after.

If the name of the Antennas Direct component is a combiner it is probably not a UVSJ so do not use it unless it says it to UVSJ

Last edited by bobsgarage; 15-Apr-2019 at 2:03 PM.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 2:20 PM   #72
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Thanks for the fast reply, Bob.

Here's what it says on the site.

It says diplexer on the picture
Quote:
This all-weather antenna combiner merges the signals from a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna on the same cable. Coaxial cable sold separately.
•DC Power Pass on UHF Port
•Insertion loss: VHF-IN/OUT 54-88 NHz 0.5dB; 174-216 Mhz 0.5dB; UHF-IN/OUT 470-698 0.8dB
•Return loss: IN/OUT 54-88 Mhz 18db; 174-216 18dB; 470-698 MHz 12dB
•Return loss: VHF 54-88 18dB; 174-216 18dB
•Return loss: UHF 470-698 12dB
•Isolation: VHF-UHF 54-88 30dB; 174-216dB, 470-698 30dB

Helpful Tips:

The DC power pass on the UHF port allows for UHF-only amplification in special circumstances. For example, when UHF signals require amplification, but the VHF signals may not. Or your household has an existing amplified antenna, but also needs to add a separate VHF antenna that doesn't need amplification.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 3:15 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
Thanks for that, Rabbit73.

I believe Tim's diagram shows the UVSJ after the power inserters for both leads.
Tim's revised diagram shows the UVSJ after the preamps, but it does not show the power inserter for the PA18 or how the LNA100 gets power.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Apr-2019 at 3:25 PM.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 3:23 PM   #74
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I see that, now.

I wouldn't have thought of it but would have put the UVSJ on the TV side of the inserters since that is where they combine
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 4:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
A UVSJ physically looks live a splitter but works very differently. It has an input marked UHF, another input marked VHF and a Line output. I would not count on it being a UVSJ unless it is specifically marked as such.

The UVSJ has a very specific function and is used when you want to combine UHF signals from one antenna with VHF signals from another antenna.

A UHF antenna will receive some VHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the VHF component from the UHF antenna.

A VHF antenna will receive some UHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the UHF component from the VHF antenna.

Since you have signals being received on two antennas, the signals may arrive at each antenna at a slightly different time. When combined together they may offset each other and lessen the total amount of signal making it weaker. Using the UVSJ, when it combines the signals from the two antennas, there are no competing signals that will mix with each other and cause signal degradation.
Yes that's true if u use an amp like a channel master 7778or the 7777 amp
The feed line frum the ANTENNA to the amp if 52 inches long will increase the vh F RECIVE. ??
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 4:46 PM   #76
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Tim's revised diagram shows the UVSJ after the preamps, but it does not show the power inserter for the PA18 or how the LNA100 gets power.
I am not clear as to how Blackstone is powering his preamps. If he can explain that to us, I will add it to the diagram.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 4:54 PM   #77
blackstone
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Referring to your original drawing, Tim.
The UHF antenna has the Antennas Direct PA 18 preamp on the mast.
The power inserter is before the splitter/combiner inside.

The VHF antenna is using the Winegard preamp.
Using Rabbit73's explanation above for the LNA 100, it is also on the antenna side of the splitter/combiner.

Hope this is the info you were looking for.

Thanks.

PS: First opportunity, I will replace the Winegard with my second PA 18 preamp
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 4:57 PM   #78
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone View Post
One last question, please?
(Until the next last question)

Rabbit73's post just made me wonder something.

I have an Antennas Direct Combiner. Also located my second PA 18 preamp.

Would the Antennas Direct combiner work and not need the UVSJ?
I would put the Pa 18 pre amp on my VHF and eliminate the Winegard.
In an earlier post you stated,

"With only the channel master, I get no UHF stations.

9 9 WTOV
13 13 WQED
19 11 WPCW"

Looks like you were picking up your high VHF stations with no problem using the LNA100 amp. If it's working don't change it.

Don't confuse UVSJ and combiner. They perform completely different functions. The UVSJ will hopefully isolate your two antennas from each other and eliminate the signal degradation you are experiencing. Using a combiner to combine two antennas usually does not work well.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 5:07 PM   #79
Tim
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Blackstone, in an earlier post you said you had the PA18 mounted on the mast of the DB8E and then 3 ft of cable connecting the preamp to the splitter/combiner. You also said the splitter/combiner was in your basement. Can you confirm that the 3 ft of cable is correct? That just doesn't seem right to me.
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Old 15-Apr-2019, 5:56 PM   #80
blackstone
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Sorry for any confusion.
The PA 18 is connected to the DB 8E with a 3' cable.
Then 50' cable is connected to the PA 18 to the power inserter with 3' cable to the combiner

Thanks for clarifying the UVSJ.

As you can tell, I understand as much about electronics as I do rocket surgery

Last edited by blackstone; 15-Apr-2019 at 5:58 PM. Reason: More
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