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Old 17-Mar-2019, 1:13 AM   #1
kb4
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In laws reception

My inlaws currently get ABC and CBS which is part time MEtv and PBS on virtual 7.1 7.3 and 11.1-3 with indoor amped antennae. The aim is to get real 16 virt 39.1 for NBC/CW and real 39 vir 16.1 for Fox etc. (yes , I know the 16 and 39 s are confusing but thats what it is 1 real and 1 virtual each) The TV Fool report is as follows
:http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038abf92c6241
this is for 20 feet.

I set up a Televes LR temporarily because I had it at 14 feet with clear unobstructed acces for at least 1/2mile to a hill of similar height at 280 degrees and also tried 260 and 270 degrees.

We added real 27 which is also vir 27.1-7 this is a big plus with all the channels like Get tv ,decades ,Hand I, antennae tv, Cozi, Bounce etc.
I would expect to get the NBC real 16 since its similar in strength to the 27 but I do not. As expected 39 real is not received .

Now do you think it is worth trying the 91 XG either single or stacked at about 20 feet to try for NBC real 16 and probably not real 39 ?

I realize We could go to 45 feet or a little above and almost assuredly get real 16 and 39. Follows a report at 30 feet:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038ee94e23f31

the following is a report at 45 feet:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038bf673538f2

Do you think 45 feet is high enough for reception of real 39 ?
Do you think 30 with stacked 91 xg is enough at 30 feet ?

Any suggestions of any other antennas or combos etc would be appreciated.
There are no interference or multiparty concerns and though the report says street level the street is a few hundred feet long of similar height property all at the only house on the street.
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Old 17-Mar-2019, 3:32 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4 View Post
My inlaws currently get ABC and CBS which is part time MEtv and PBS on virtual 7.1 7.3 and 11.1-3 with indoor amped antennae. The aim is to get real 16 virt 39.1 for NBC/CW and real 39 vir 16.1 for Fox etc. (yes , I know the 16 and 39 s are confusing but thats what it is 1 real and 1 virtual each)
Hello, kb4. There are some errors in the TVfool report because of a defective database and many recent channel changes because of Repack by the FCC.



A report from rabbitears.info has a more accurate list of channels.











WJKT Fox is now on real channel 21.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WJKT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WJKT

https://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?...ms&facid=68519

Repack Plan

https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4 View Post
Now do you think it is worth trying the 91 XG either single or stacked at about 20 feet to try for NBC real 16 and probably not real 39 ?
WJKT Fox is now real 21, not 39.

The signal report is only a computer simulation. I suggest you try the 91XG at 20 feet for 16 and 21 with a preamp. It sometimes helps to tilt the front end of the antenna up. Also note that those two channels are about 18 degrees apart, and will be scattered by diffraction at the terrain peaks.





If that doesn't work, try a single 91XG at 45 feet.

Horizontal stacking two 91XGs at 45 feet is a last resort. It's a lot of work and will make the beamwidth more narrow.
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/index.html

The 91XG has much less gain for the lower UHF channels. The DB8e was redesigned for 14-51; it has a little more gain at the low end if both panels are aimed in the same direction, but tilting it up would be a custom modification. Try the 91XG first.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg kb4TVFreport.JPG (173.3 KB, 415 views)
File Type: jpg kb4TVFreportRE.JPG (168.1 KB, 408 views)
File Type: jpg kb4TVFreportRE45.JPG (175.0 KB, 419 views)
File Type: jpg kb4TVFp2WJKT.JPG (116.2 KB, 420 views)
File Type: jpg kb4TVFcovWJKT.JPG (111.7 KB, 406 views)
File Type: jpg kb4TVFcovWJKTcu.JPG (122.2 KB, 419 views)
File Type: jpg kb4TVFpathWJKT.JPG (93.5 KB, 377 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 17-Mar-2019 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 1:20 AM   #3
kb4
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I appreciate the detailed response . I knew there was a pretty high ridge between transmitter and antennae wasn't quite sure if its height was high enough to block the height of the transmitter. I am afraid that to get Fox will have to go to 45 feet or so but most likely will be able to get NBC at 20 feet. I plan to try the current televes at 20 to see what NBC does then if don't get NBC get the 91XG and try it at 20. If either gets NBC will likely stop for now and see if can find a nearby tower not being used to take down and move to their location. I don't really like using 40 ft push up etc but had a stardust and big stick on one on chimney mount long time ago. There are many towers that are not being used in this area and probably could get by with 30 foot tower and 20 foot galvanized chain link fence rail up additional 15 feet or so or schedule 40 water pipe.

Yes, I just checked the real channel for Fox on my TV and it is 21 not that I didn't trust you lol.

Just one more thing I forgot to ask

Would it be beneficial in a practical sense to use something non metallic such as schedule 40 PVC for the last few feet of mast and if needed for ground just something like a 10 ga copper wire from antenna mount to the metal the PVC wood or other material is attached to in order to get more benefit from the antennas directing elements ?

Again appreciate all the time and effort to help me . I certainly wasn't aware of the less precipitous falloff of the gain of the DB8 at the lower UHF band.
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 1:49 AM   #4
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Would it be beneficial in a practical sense to use something non metallic such as schedule 40 PVC for the last few feet of mast and if needed for ground just something like a 10 ga copper wire from antenna mount to the metal the PVC wood or other material is attached to in order to get more benefit from the antennas directing elements ?
I see no advantage to using PVC for the top portion of the mast, and it would fail sooner than metal. The antenna is designed to respond to signals that have horizontal polarization; a vertical metal mast would cause little harm to the antenna pattern.

In the case of two 91XGs mounted side-by-side, it is customary to use fiberglass for the horizontal boom that supports the two antennas.
https://www.atechfabrication.com/tes...cking_test.htm

https://www.atechfabrication.com/pro...tenna_boom.htm
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Last edited by rabbit73; 18-Mar-2019 at 1:56 AM.
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 2:36 AM   #5
kb4
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thanks, I had never thought about it before since with 10 11 meter antennas it wouldn't have been practical
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 12:53 PM   #6
Nascarken
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If you stack you should probably do the side by side 3ft apart
And the 45ft hi and if you're looking for a amp that I suggest
Is a 100% better than the channel master 7777&78mast mount amp
And the cost of the amp kits that I use is $45dollars+shipping cost
And it's nice becuse it will do uhfx2,at45:dbg.And,vhf,at35:dbg.
Or a kit that is uhf,45:dbg/vhf at35:dbg$35 +shipping costs
and the HDB91xg by solid signal is a better antenna for the money
And if you're looking too get your hi band vh F I Suggest the 2nd amp kits I Suggest!!!
With a vhf/uhf ANTENNAS like the antenna Direct or the SOLiD single HDB91.
Well good luck with your antenna set-up and look out for power lines when installing an outdoor tv antenna good day everyone on the form.
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 1:48 PM   #7
kb4
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I appreciate your response NascarKen . I am not attempting to get any VHF channels because both are fairly weak and about 90 miles away though they are both NBC. I do have one of the discontinued atennaecraft 7-13 VHF channel antennas which would be very good for WSMV-DT and could be a last resort but I should be able to get WNBJ-LD on UHF. WMC-dt would require a much larger higher wind load Low VHF antenna like the 8200 and I am trying to avoid both the extra weight but more the wind load which would make the system less steady that might cause less reliable UHF reception and would likely still have to have to have separate UHF system from my prior experience the UHF portion of the 8200 did not perform as well as several different dedicated UHF antennas at my house.

The main reason I plan to try the 91XG instead of the HDB91 xg are the reviews i have read that seem to suggest that the 91XG is has better construction and it is only about $15 more at least expensive source I found. Best I could tell they are very similar antennas. I probably should compare the specs around channel 21 but for now will stick with 91XG.

I am not clear which amplifier you are suggesting but it would seem useful to use a dual UHF input amp if I have to stack UHF antennas . I see you mentioned the two channel masters but seem to be referring to a different amp for my project. I have used the RCA amp with both VHF and UHF inputs to combine the 7-13 antenna with UHF before and didn't need much amplification. I did neglect to mention that mast mounted amp will definitely be used due to RG6 cable run of about 125 to 150 feet depending on final antenna placement. Right now run is 100 feet.

So, to be clear which amp are you suggesting to try?
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 4:32 PM   #8
Nascarken
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Ok cool I have an OTHER suggestions for you IT'S the new channel master
Uhf/vh F omniplus 50miles of RECEIVE range put it up like 35ft hi with a
7778amp by channel master and it is a lot smaller than the 91,and you do not need
a Rotor for it well rabbit what do you think about the channel master cm-3011hd
outdoor Antenna.
And the amp kits that I am using
Is the johansson amp kits thay are 24,VOLTS with a smashing 45+45dbg.
Ok + each 91x the dbg is like 17,+ an OTHER 3:dbg for stacking them
Side by side and one hi vhf ANTENNA below the 91xg seller's LAB,hi vh F
With this antenna set-up you will receive BROADCASTING TOWER's 90+miles away
But then you are back too a Rotor.yes the RCA is ok and the same thing
For channel master amp's but it all depends on what you are looking for
In recving BROADCASTING TOWER's 90+miles away.

Last edited by Nascarken; 18-Mar-2019 at 4:54 PM.
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Old 18-Mar-2019, 7:20 PM   #9
rabbit73
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Quote:
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thanks, I had never thought about it before since with 10 11 meter antennas it wouldn't have been practical
A CB Yagi with vertical elements and a 2 meter FM Yagi with vertical elements have vertical polarization. A metal mast would affect their performance. One way to minimize the problem with a 2 meter vertical FM Yagi is to put the mast behind the reflector.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 18-Mar-2019 at 7:56 PM.
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Old 19-Mar-2019, 12:18 AM   #10
Nascarken
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Or use a fiberglass pole ok know you are using a ANTENNAS DIRECT 91xg
It's a good pick it will pull in what you are looking for but I feel that you should
Go with a channel master cm7777.With the fm trap tillit the 91 all the way
And you should get the ANTENNA is hi as you can is a+ too you have to realize
And everyone you are in a hole and the RCA amp is not strong enough
To get you out of the hole!!well know I will tell you about the johansson amp kits that I have installed the units are set up to receive vhf,and if you wish not to use the vh F
it comes with caps and the vh F is 35dbg.know hear is the best uhf45,dbgx2 uhf45:db g
It is a 24volt amp and you should be using an Rg6 solid 18gage copper wire not copper clad STEAL CABLE on mast mount AMP with the johansson amp kits I had them
Tuned for the antenna Direct 91xg so when you put 2 91xg side by side 3ft apart
So 2,91xg,is 34dbg+3more dbg+45+45=I think this antenna set-up will get you what you are looking for.
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Old 19-Mar-2019, 1:06 PM   #11
kb4
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Thank you for replies. It may be a while before I do any more than try to raise to 20 feet. I will try to let you know of the results
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Old 19-Mar-2019, 1:27 PM   #12
Nascarken
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Ok cool have you ever looked into a telescoping mast channel master telescoping mast
It does a 45Ft long and you dount have to use the hole 45 ft and you can get it at
Home depot and I think wall Mart free shipping too the store
Well good luck with your antenna set-up and look out for power lines when installing an outdoor tv antenna good day everyone
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Old 23-Mar-2019, 2:11 AM   #13
kb4
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well went to the inlays today and moved the antenna up to 18 feet and NBC came in then went to 22 feet and fox came in. so they now receive ABC CBS NBC FOX CW and 13 other rerun type channels reliably. That is what we were hoping for and early ams and night sometimes they get two channels from memphis via tropo .

I was using the military type aluminum tent poles that i drilled holes in and placed pins through like a boat trailer safety pin and a triangular pod stand often used for temporary radio transmitter antennas . Next is the permanent pole, cable burying etc. I intend to get a twenty foot pipe and pivot it on an old satellite c band antenna pole that is concreted securely in place . this will make it easily accessible. and get it up an extra 2 feet or so.

Maybe the Televes antenna does well here because of the angle of the triple booms line up with the refraction angle off the ridge a few miles away.

Thanks for the help and suggestions and I learned to use rabbit ears.com also!
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Old 23-Mar-2019, 9:10 PM   #14
Nascarken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4 View Post
well went to the inlays today and moved the antenna up to 18 feet and NBC came in then went to 22 feet and fox came in. so they now receive ABC CBS NBC FOX CW and 13 other rerun type channels reliably. That is what we were hoping for and early ams and night sometimes they get two channels from memphis via tropo .

I was using the military type aluminum tent poles that i drilled holes in and placed pins through like a boat trailer safety pin and a triangular pod stand often used for temporary radio transmitter antennas . Next is the permanent pole, cable burying etc. I intend to get a twenty foot pipe and pivot it on an old satellite c band antenna pole that is concreted securely in place . this will make it easily accessible. and get it up an extra 2 feet or so.

Maybe the Televes antenna does well here because of the angle of the triple booms line up with the refraction angle off the ridge a few miles away.

Thanks for the help and suggestions and I learned to use rabbit ears.com also!
ok sounds good if you put a amp on it thay will RECEIVE the channel all the time I suggest a channel master 7777AMP
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Old 24-Mar-2019, 7:36 AM   #15
kb4
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the televes antenna has an amp built in to the balun portion of the antenna that is supposed to automatically adjust the amount of signal and has a filter for LTE transmissions . It can be used with or without the power inserter portion which has two outputs for the TV. In this case the only channel that require the amp to be powered was the Fox channel even with about 130 feet of coax.

I checked with in laws this evening and the reception has been steady. They also rescanned and received two Memphis Channels 30 and 24 virtual for several hours this am from tropo those channels are about 90 miles from them.

Thanks
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