TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 1-Apr-2019, 5:48 AM   #1
RMinNJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
Any hope for house in woods

I'm 34 miles from the NYC transmitters but surrounded by trees.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90383cd810a4bf


Any hope of getting more UHF or vhf hi channels 11 and 7? I had tried a cheap RCA ANT705E antenna inside raised on my cathedral ceiling and cabled to the TV ...got maybe 9 stations.. PBS UHF and I think maybe CBS. Cabled in my attic it did far worst through the longer RG6 cable left from my satellite. I will not be able to get above the trees with a root mount..

I was thinking to wait until the summer when there are leaves on the trees and try again with some sort of roof mount. I will not be able to get above them.
RMinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Apr-2019, 12:05 PM   #2
bobsgarage
Senior Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 184
I think you may have answered your own question for now. That little 751 it's probably not large enough especially in your environment. And having the antenna inside the attic or inside the house effectively cuts the signal strength in half. Hopefully some of the experts will come here and help you with the right type of antenna. But you will definitely need to go on top of your roof probably as high as possible.

I'm no expert. I come here for help. My gut feeling is an 8Bay type antenna angled slightly upward to catch a signal from above the Treeline.

But you say you cannot go on the roof?

Last edited by bobsgarage; 1-Apr-2019 at 12:07 PM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Apr-2019, 1:24 PM   #3
RMinNJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
house in woods

I can go on the roof. I can put a up as high an antenna as I want...no neighbors. But nothing will get above the trees. Thats why I was going to wait for summer.
RMinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Apr-2019, 3:45 PM   #4
rickbb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 313
You can also put one in the top of one of the trees. Provided you can safely get to the top of one.


Look around with a compass, try for a spot that "sees" the towers with the fewest trees in the line of site. Might help.
rickbb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1-Apr-2019, 8:54 PM   #5
bobsgarage
Senior Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbb View Post
You can also put one in the top of one of the trees. Provided you can safely get to the top of one.


Look around with a compass, try for a spot that "sees" the towers with the fewest trees in the line of site. Might help.
That's not a bad idea. I think the Antenna Hacks author has done that.. I'm sure others have too. I don't know if he had brackets or what but he put his antenna in a tree. Not a bad when there is no hope otherwise.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Apr-2019, 7:35 AM   #6
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
I would try now while leaves are off if you can't get signal now you certainly won't be able to with leaves. I believe the VHF channels may not be as affected by the trees as the UHF band .

Get the antenna outside even if its not that high it will most likely help.

Since you want the VHF high channels 7 and 11 you will need a VHF high band antenna and since these may be difficult to receive I would try the stellar labs VHF high antenna see link https://www.amazon.com/30-2475-Fring...s%2C209&sr=8-3
A relatively inexpensive way would be to get a 21 foot long 1 5/8 inch i believe ss20 commercial chain link fence rail at a fence supplier. Hopefully you could tie it on vehicle or put on boat trailer etc to haul. These cost about $40 in my area and you can attach temporarily to hose eve 4x4 post deck corner etc or use guy wires. Later if you put antenna on roof you could hacksaw down to 12 or 15 foot for use with tripod mount etc.

Or probably easier get a 10 foot piece of galvanized conduit somewhere like lowes to use as mast pipe.

I believe you will be able to get 7 11 and maybe 8 with this antenna. I would start with antenna pointed at 134 degrees and if you get 7 and 11 but not 8 try further toward 8 at 184 degrees until you either get all three or lose 7 and 11.

If you don't get 7 and 11 there you can try on rooftop. If you get them at 10 or 20 feet above ground and lose them when leaves come out you can try rooftop.

Doubt you would need amp to try with cable less than 50 feet. If you run longer cable to put on rooftop etc and need preamp then you would need to decide if you want to combine a separate UHF with the VHF antenna. If so consider the following preamp with separate VHF and Uhf inputs to act also as a combiner
https://www.amazon.com/RCA-TVPRAMP1Z...0BPGRSKP19EZ0#
or any single antenna amp for vhf such as the LNA 200 etc

I have used climbing deer stand to climb a bigger pine tree removing limbs as i go and near top attach mast and antenna but its dangerous and a real PITA and likely would be very long cable run and possibly need power supply within 150 feet if need preamp.

I didn't mean to ramble . In short try the stellar labs antenna at a convenient height then move higher or amp as needed. If you don't get anything with this now you probably won't get it without extreme measures .

If you get 7 and 11 with stellar lab you could also consider Dennys Stacker antenna for rooftop that gets UHF and to some extent VHF high and low or something like the 7698p winegard for the VHF high and Uhf . Depends on how much experimenting you want to do with feet on ground or on rooftop.

If you have to you can always run two cables to ab switch etc but getting too complicated.

Last edited by kb4; 2-Apr-2019 at 7:44 AM.
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Apr-2019, 8:16 AM   #7
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
A winnegard u8200 would also get low band VHF real channels 2-6 but much larger and more difficult to manage on rooftop. Frankly I have had better reception for the UHF band from separate UHF antennas than the combined one piece UHF VHF antennas.

I would try the stellar labs VHF if it works try a separate uhf to combine with it and choice would depend on which UHF channels and directions you desire. A directional high gain antenna such as the db8 or XG 91 may get more UHF channels but may have to use rotor or multiple antennas in different directions since you have many channels at about 130 and 240 degrees but the 240 degree channels are fairly close and strong and might be able to receive with directional pointed at 134 degrees and may even help by preventing over amplification of the 240 degree channels.

Here is a link to the dennys hd stacker which is relatively compact
http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/...enna-html.html
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Apr-2019, 4:13 PM   #8
RMinNJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
Thanks so much for the replies. That HD stacker antenna sure looks nice except for the price. I would love to have it mounted in the attic like in the pictures .attic would be so convenient and simple...but Im thinking I need something outside...

I tried to explain to friends and family paying for just my basic cable that gets the local channels.. any antenna would pay for itself in 3 to 4 months.

I have some roof issues I need taken care of before I can put anything up there.

I was thinking of calling the DISH TV antenna installation service but when there are leaves on the trees...I was told they do not charge if they cannot get a signal. I was told the use some compact Televes Diginova antenna.
RMinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Apr-2019, 8:43 PM   #9
JoeAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 378
Welcome RMinNJ,
You have received some very, very good information. In tough signal situations, I always prefer separate VHF and UHF antennas with a RG6 cable for each. Here is why. Even though transmitters might broadcast from the same point, the path they take to your antennas can be quite different. A few degrees up/down or side to side can make all the difference. Be certain to "walk your roof" before selecting a mounting point for your antenna(s). A few feet in any direction can make a huge difference. I like the Stellar Labs VHF antenna and would also go for an 8 bay UHF antenna. Combining antennas sometimes can reduce the signal. That is why I
recommend separate RG6 cable runs, one for each antenna to your television. An A/B switch can be used to change between the two antennas. Good Luck!
JoeAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Apr-2019, 10:11 PM   #10
ckwsp101_tv
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 27
RMinNJ


My location also surrounded by trees.
I had fair success with dedicated VHF antennas for RF 7.
Using 2 vertically stacked Antennacraft Y-10-13 to manage multipath issues.
ckwsp101_tv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3-Apr-2019, 1:47 AM   #11
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
yes I actually have the antennacraft Y10 7-13 in use at my house right now but it is no longer available and the stellar lab antenna is about as close as currently available commercially.

The televes diginova states it is UHF and VHF but its very limited for VHF and I would say very unlikely to get 7 and 11 and also not your best choice for the UHF. The televes Mix long range pictured in link would be more likely and might work on UHF channels and though better on VHF than diginova would still likely fall far short of the goal.

https://www.amazon.com/Televes-DATBO...gateway&sr=8-2

This antenna is exactly same as UHF version with extra reflector added to back and has a built in amplifier that can be used with the power inserter or without. I actually like this antenna it is good quality but A real PITA to assemble.

Yes if signal received but multiparth a problem then stacking would be a possible solution.

I still say get the stellar lab put on a piece of conduit etc and if u have to just go outside and hold it pointed @134 degrees and see what happens u may be pleasantly surprised. Then worry about rooftop and UHF etc. we are talking about $50 to get at least an idea for VHF.
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3-Apr-2019, 2:02 AM   #12
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
Also since the dish people would undoubtedly receive some channels would they say that is enough to charge you for service, I think they would. But if you can get them to specify that they must receive 7 and 11 or not be paid no loss I guess. I doubt they will do this.
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-May-2019, 8:52 PM   #13
RMinNJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4 View Post
Also since the dish people would undoubtedly receive some channels would they say that is enough to charge you for service, I think they would. But if you can get them to specify that they must receive 7 and 11 or not be paid no loss I guess. I doubt they will do this.
LOL Now that leaves are on the trees I called the DISH people and the guy
simply put my address in antennaweb.org and said I can only get channel 7...only channel they would expect me to get with their antenna.

I think Im going to start with the Stellar Labs and amplifier to see what it pulls in.
RMinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-May-2019, 10:56 AM   #14
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
good plan RM. Please report results.
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-May-2019, 3:10 AM   #15
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,544
Hello, RMinNJ

This is an image of your TVFool report:



This report from rabbitears.info probably has a more accurate list of channels:



I agree with the previous advice: you will need a separate VHF-High antenna and preamp for 7 and 11.
https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...vhf/dp/48Y8141
a little more gain:
https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...nna/dp/71Y5462
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RMinNJTVFreport.JPG (188.7 KB, 900 views)
File Type: jpg RMinNJTVFreportRE.JPG (188.0 KB, 893 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 24-May-2019 at 3:21 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-May-2019, 10:24 AM   #16
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
Thanks Rabbit . I was unaware of the higher gain stellar lab antenna. It is possible that the more directional higher gain one would improve reception of channels 7 and 11 but be too directional for channel 8. However, I believe the best bet would be to go with the stellar lab 30-2476 then at least you have the best chance of getting 7 and 11 and might still get 8 or could rotate antenna if desired.
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-May-2019, 3:01 PM   #17
jrgagne99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
I would go with the 30-2476 VHF antenna as well. Not the 2475. I have a 2476 pulling in RF-13, which has a listed NM of +7.5 dB on my TVFool report at my location. Over the winter, the wind blew the aim off by 45 degrees and I still am able to receive the signal with plenty of margin. So i think you have a good shot pulling in all 3 of your VHF signals if you aim it at 145 magnetic (or maybe 160-ish), even though RF-8 is at 195 magnetic.
jrgagne99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-May-2019, 9:50 PM   #18
RMinNJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
I ordered the 2475.. We will see. the 2476 was like 20 inches longer for 2db.
RMinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-2019, 10:52 PM   #19
kb4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 48
Let us know the results when you get the antenna up !
kb4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jun-2019, 5:42 PM   #20
RMinNJ
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
Ok guys. I first want to preface this with a big thanks for all the help...you guys know what you are talking about for sure.

I had purchased the Stellar Labs 30-2475 and the RCA TVPRAMP1Z for amazon to try.

First it did not work in my attic at all ...nothing.. Placing it outside in my driveway about a foot from the house and on a box (with a 15ft cable) to my little TV it got 7, 11, 13 VHF. 13 was the weakest and required a little more placement. I also tried it on my deck near the edge furthest from the house and it got those stations. (It pulled in 63 (18) the first one on the list but that is not a major channel).

I tried through the cable runs to TVs in the house by using a coupler.. This reduced the signal and it lost all but 7. ..it was clear it needed to be amplified. The RCA combiner/amp I purchased though did not help/work.. checking the voltage on it it was 9V instead of 12V like many of the amazon reviews said (I got a dud). So i do not know if amplifying it will make up for my cable runs in the house.. Im going to say if I were to mount it... it could be 50ft to the main lower level TV.

//tangent experiment//
I called the DISH people and the guy came out and tried the Televes Diginova MIX (one with the VHF dipoles). It did not do as well as the Stellar Labs..really nothing at all unless I held it up on the far edge of the driveway. Then it got 7,11,13.. but that would never make it through the house cables..it did not meet the techs minimum signal level. so a refund for my trouble. There is something to be said for 12db of pure signal amplification from the Stellar Labs vs 30db of amplification of the tiny Televes (amplifies nothing/noise).
///end tangent experiment//


So I dont know what I should do... try the Juice Amp and see if the signal can make it through the house cabling? if that works think of mounting it on the side of the house by the driveway? No idea on UHF yet (except it will make for a large antenna combo on side of the house..). Ideal antenna ascetically would be the Stellar Labs with UHF combined in it.

Again ...thanks so much for the expert help..you guys really know what you're talking about here.

Last edited by RMinNJ; 7-Jun-2019 at 6:28 PM.
RMinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
trees

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC