Missing channels - Stafford, VA

[draken]

Following the advise receive in this forum HERE I purchased a Winegard 7695 antenna and mounted it on the mount used for the satellite dish which I've removed. As I was the only one on the roof, the longer end of the boom, which is pointed towards 38 degrees magnetic, is somewhat pointing downward. I've done multiple rescans using Windows Media Center, and I'm not getting signal for several channels. Here's what I get and don't get, hoping for some suggestions to get the rest of the channels. Channel numbers listed are real channel numbers.

I get:
30 WNVT
27 WETA
34 WPXW
48 WRC
9 WUSA

I do not get:
36 WTTG
7 WJLA
35 WDCA
50 WDCW

Channels not listed are not important to me. Here's a radar plot generated from the maps, where the pinpoint was put exactly where the satellite dish was mounted using the high resolution satellite imagery. Radar Plot

The one that confuses me is WTTG, as I was able to get that one with indoor rabbit ears, but comes up as no signal using the 7695. Thank you for all the help getting to this point, and thank you in advance for any assistance in pulling in the remaining channels.

[No static at all]

Does the antenna clear the roofline in the direction it is pointed? Are you using a preamp? I'm very surprised you aren't seeing channel 7.

[John Candle]

This an example of why I go in to the great detail that I do and also why I become frustrated with the question asker. Here is how to point Tv antennas http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html . The Tv antenna needs to be horizontal with the ground. As an example , when you lay down on the ground , you are horizontal with the ground. When you stand up you are vertical with the ground.

[draken]

Yes, it clears the roof line, points away from the house and there is no preamp being used. Previous thread suggested I not use one. And I tried my best to get this thing horizontal, but being up on the roof by myself, barely hanging on to the edge made it difficult at best. If the weather holds out, I'll try making it horizontal this evening. Sorry for causing frustration, but I'm doing the best I can.

[John Candle]

So , how do you define the 'longer end of the boom'.??

[draken]

............/
----|--<-------------
......|....\
......|
.....Mast................^Long end of boom, pointed towards transmission towers.

Please excuse the periods, only way I could get the ASCII art to show up properly. The rest of the symbols signify the antenna and mast. I estimate the long end of the boom to be pointing downward around 10 degrees.

[John Candle]

As a helper , I do my best to think like a question asker. It's like herding cats. And this is why I so often suggest and recommend a Strong and Sturdy Tv antenna mounts such as A Tripod antenna mount , A Chimney mount or A Peak of roof eave mount. And why I often say , No monkey swinging maneuvers and No Bone Head maneuvers.

[draken]

The mast itself didn't move due to the antenna. I just couldn't hold up the longer end that was hanging off the roof while I tightened the bolts on the antenna mount. By that point, my arms were tired from all the trips up and down to get the dish down, and the antenna up. Having to crab walk across the roof each time due to the slope and lack of traction. I do not have a chimney so that isn't an option. May go tripod near the peak in the future if the existing mount won't work, but was hoping to not put more holes in the roof since the dish mount was already there and I'm trying to keep the cost down as that was the point of ditching satellite in the first place. I'll report back once I've had a chance to level out the antenna. Thank you again for all of the advise and recommendations, it is truly appreciated!

[John Candle]

Here is peak of roof eave mount. http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. If more then one Tv is connected use a simple passive splitter , not any of satellite system splitter/combiners. And if one Tv is connected , do not use any of the satellite systems splitter/combiners. . Always look in the connectors that are on the ends of the coax cables. Coax cables that are ready made that you buy in a store are machine made , the cutting blades become dull and not cutting cleanly and push the foil shied and shield wires toward the center conductor. Push the foil shied and shield wires away from the center conductor.

[draken]

Only running to a single TV. I'm reusing all of the RG-6 cable that was used with the satellite system. I removed the satellite multiswitch from the cable path, replaced it with barrel connector. Didn't have any issues with the satellite reception, so am I safe to conclude there isn't any issues with the shielding on the cables?

Won't be able to use the under eave mount you showed, I don't have a ladder that goes up that high, and it would be too visible. If the current mount won't work after I level it and double check its bearing, then I'll likely go for something like this that would give me some additional height and could be placed on the back side of the roof (where the current mount is) and still be somewhat unobtrusive. But this is an option after I exhaust all other possibilities using the existing mount.

[No static at all]

Since you are receiving WETA, I'm convinced there isn't a cabling issue. As John pointed out, the antenna needs to be horizontal (Or even slightly tilted up would be OK as well). If after trying the antenna in different spots, heights & tweaking the aim, a preamp may be needed to help make the desired channels reliable. The TV FOOL shows adequate signal strength, but it isn't always completely accurate.

[draken]

Ok, went up on the roof last night, just beating out the incoming cold front and some light rain. Antenna is now horizontal, and I tried rotating it a couple of degrees in either direction to see if that would help with reception. Net result is I lost WETA and gained 0 additional channels.

Retested the signal strength early this morning before the sun came up since the clouds had gone away. Still no WETA, and I see some signal now for WTTG, but it has a lot of pixilation and stuttering, too much to be watchable.

Since Windows Media Center doesn't give a number for the signal, only colored bars, I don't know if I'm getting enough signal for WJLA, WDCA, and WDCW for a preamp to be helpful.

So now I'm looking to either add a preamp or get a tripod and move the antenna a bit higher. Not sure which will be the best way to go. Any thoughts or input would be appreciated. Won't be able to get back up on the roof until it warms up a bit, looking at the forecast, that may be a while.

If I were to go with a tripod, how does one walk the roof and find the best spot without impacting the reception of the antenna? I recall from my younger days just touching rabbit ears would often improve reception, and I wouldn't want to think I found a good spot just to see it become a bad spot once I'm no longer holding the mast or the antenna.

Thank you again for all the help getting me to this point, and for your insight into my next step.

[John Candle]

Install a Winegard HDP269 preamp

[mtownsend]

Are you able to post a picture of your antenna as it is now?

Some initial thoughts based on what I've heard:

1) The HD7695P has some longer elements at the "back" of the antenna that need to be snapped into place. There is only a brief mention of it in the installation instructions, but it is very important that these elements are on alternating sides of the boom, left-right-left-right. If those elements are not alternating, then the gain on high-VHF channels (7-13) will not be as good as it's supposed to be.

2) Apart from the mast, the antenna should be as far away from other objects as possible. If there is any roof or wall near the antenna (under, beside, behind), it can affect the performance of the antenna. There should be nothing at all directly in front of the antenna (pointing toward stations), and I usually recommend at least 4 feet clearance on all other sides of the antenna (this also means 4' over the roof-line, if possible).

3) Based on the signals strengths in your report, a pre-amp like the HDP-269 should be safe to use without having overload problems.

[draken]

To respond to some of mtownsend's questions, no photos for now as we had snow today...

1) The long elements are properly snapped into place. At the back of the boom, the one on the top goes one way, the one on the bottom goes the other. The remainder alternate as they are supposed to.

2) The antenna is on an existing satellite dish mount on the roof, with the dish removed. The antenna at the mount point is about 18" above the roof, the back of the boom is about 1/2" above the asphalt shingles. The front of the boom extends out beyond the roof as the mount is right at the lower edge of the roof. I'm hoping to avoid adding a different mount unless that is my only option left.

3) For preamps, I'd prefer the CM line as they are aluminum rather than plastic and have lightening protection. Would the CM 7777 (23 VHF/26UHF gain) likely lead to overload problems? If so, would the CM 7778 (16 VHF/23UHF gain) be a better choice?

[John Candle]

What a big mess , every one babbling and jabbering and no one presenting any useful information. My suggestion draken is to tell every one to go Straight to the Truth. If they can not do that then do not say anything.

[John Candle]

Draken I read the comments about google forums and getting to the truth and I read what you said about people lying and complaining and blaming , and I understand. The popular lie now days is -- lying by omission.

[Dave Loudin]

John, please keep your comments focussed on the problem!

[draken]

Last night the HTPC came out of sleep to record a show off of WUSA, and quickly went back to sleep. I checked, and no longer had any signal on WUSA, but oddly did have signal on WDCW. It was cold and mostly cloudless last night when this occurred. Looks like signals which come in strong don't always come in. Don't know if this make a difference or not when evaluating the two preamps, the 7778 vs the 7777. I also already see a conflict for my single tuner so I'll likely add a silicon dust dual tuner device to the mix soon, which will mean a 3 way splitter. This has me thinking the 7777 is the way to go to give me the head room for splitting, provided it doesn't overdrive the current tuner before the other tuners are added.

[John Candle]

John, thank you for keeping your comments focused on the problems !