Antenna upgrade or booster?

rgallop · 3-Mar-2011, 10:49 PM

Here is my report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c77a1917fa4a69

Antenna: Philips MANT410 (powered rabbit ear type on top of the living room tv)

Converter boxes: Access HD 1080D

I can currently pull in all the KC digital stations with some movement of the UHF antenna. The power button is turned all the way up on the UHF selector. I have split it off to my downstairs computer (Pinnacle PCTV 800e usb) device, from there, the cable goes outside the house, and it's split again leading to the bedroom tv's about 40 or 50 ft away. Cable is newer coax that recently ran comcast, surewest, and uverse over the last 2 years. Anyway, I am getting weak signal/pixelation on the bedroom tv's and once in a while on the living room tv.

I guess my question is should I invest in a booster of some sort, or should I go with an outside antenna and mount it to the back deck or something. Also, am I too far form St. Joseph or Topeka to pull in their stations? They are probably just repeats of the KC channels anyway.

GroundUrMast · 3-Mar-2011, 11:15 PM

You have plenty of signal in the air... I would mount an Antennas Direct DB-2 or DB-4 outside. Facing NE, you should not need any amplifier for a system split four ways... It's not clear to me, how many total receivers are connected though. I would try with out amplification, a high input amp won't be difficult to install later. The larger DB-4 would provide power for more signal splitting.

Antennas inside or in attics are handicapped, sometimes more than 20dB, by the building materials that surround them.

Most amplifiers will be overloaded with the signal levels shown on your TVF Report. As a rule of thumb, never install two amplifiers in the same system. (The amplifier in your MANT410 counts.)

The stations to the west are too weak to receive without looking in to higher antenna elevation. Unless you are a sports fan needing (wanting) access to alternate feeds, I suspect there will be a great deal of programing overlap. You can experiment with different antenna mounting heights to see if the signal strength will change much.

rgallop · 3-Mar-2011, 11:45 PM

GroundUrMast,

Thank you for the quick response and guidance! I have a total of 4 devices connected. The Pinnacle PCTV 800e usb TV device, and 3 converter boxes for our old school SD TV's.

I will check into the Antennas Direct DB-2 and when I get it in place will post the results.

John Candle · 6-Mar-2011, 12:13 AM

All of the LOS Line Of Sight stations are Strong , With a DB2 or better yet a DB4 you will Not need a amplifier.

rgallop · 6-Mar-2011, 12:51 PM

John Candle,

Thanks for the input. With that being said. Do you know if the DB2 can be combined with the DB4 or DB8? They all look the same, but with a different junction mast. Maybe Antennas Direct doesn't sell them by the part, only as a fully setup antenna. I ordered the DB2 and post from Amazon for $60.

Dave Loudin · 6-Mar-2011, 3:19 PM

Do not buy both antennas and try to combine them. Since you already have the DB-2 coming, just use that.

rgallop · 9-Mar-2011, 12:48 AM

Dave,

Will do. I expect to get it tomorrow and have it mounted and connected soon. I am expcting a nice improvement over the powered rabbit ears.

rgallop · 9-Mar-2011, 11:51 PM

Today I received the AD DB2 and so far I wonder if I am doing something wrong. I mounted it near the NE corner of the house and hooked it up. I didn't have time to adjust it so it's pointed toward the ground, but quite some distance out since it's about 10 ft. up. I will re-adjust on Friday when the weather is warmer. It's 36 cloudy and windy in Kansas City today.

Anyway, I am getting bouncing reception on most of the channels. I did a rescan on 2 of the 4 tv's and it's basically the same results. One thing I may need to pick up tomorrow is an RG6 cable. The one I used from the antenna to the 3 way splitter is an RG59. I've had it in a box since we moved a few years ago. Should I replace the cables from the splitter to the converter boxes as well? They worked fine recently before we dropped Comcast.

I am open for suggestions since I want to make this antenna work correctly.

Thanks,

Rob

GroundUrMast · 10-Mar-2011, 1:20 AM

The antenna should not be aimed into the ground usually. The majority of installations work best with the antenna aimed at the horizon. In some cases, a few degrees of tilt above the horizon can be helpful, but here your stations are all 'line of site' so I doubt any 'tricks' are needed. The antenna should "face" the NE.

Here is a link re. antenna aiming that covers the common antenna types.

New RG-6 will have less loss than the old RG-59... if there is any doubt about the condition of the RG-59, replace it. If it has ever had moisture inside, toss it.

Before replacing the RG-6 inside the house, try running to just one set, to be sure you have the antenna aimed and delivering a good signal.

Then if you loose the signal by running through older parts and cable, you know were to look for the trouble.

rgallop · 10-Mar-2011, 10:59 AM

G.U.M.

I had a little time this morning and replaced a 2 way splitter that splits (just inside the house from the junction box) my USB tv/computer and my living room tv. This is the only splitter beyond the 3 way in the junction box. The other two tvs connect right form the junction box. The signal in the living room is now stronger. One thing I noticed last night while testing was the converter box on top of my living room tv got very hot after a while. This morning it doesn't seem to be doing it; and this is after I changed that splitter. Do you know of any reason this could happen? I am going to pick up a new RG6 cable to go from the antenna down to the box and see if that helps, along with aiming the antenna, per your suggestion.

Sorry if I sound like a rookie at this, it's been a while. When I was a kid, we had the old 25in color tube Zenith tv. My dad had us change the channel all the time. We had the classic antenna on the roof with the rotor. I was always messing with trying to DX channels from afar. Being a network engineer by trade I should have noticed a layer 1 problem right away. Thanks again for all the help.

GroundUrMast · 10-Mar-2011, 4:05 PM

I've read several end user reviews that mentioned 'high' temperature after extended running... I don't have a list of STB models and their operating temps.

A few STB's incorporated a feature 'Smart Antenna'... or some similar name. The feature was supposed to allow the receiver to control antenna directional gain. I know of no currently available antennas that actually support this feature. If an STB is sinking power (to power and control an antenna) into the coax, it would theoretically run warmer by some small amount. The common balun/matching transformer at the antenna would appear as a short to power applied to the center conductor of the coax... if all of the splitters were of the power passing design. A lot of what if's.

That you have more signal after replacing a splitter, is more significant to me. It implies that the old part was defective or the wrong type. Satellite parts can easily be mistaken as OTA / CATV parts.

rgallop · 11-Mar-2011, 1:56 AM

G.U.M.,

I had time to do some testing and the weather was cooperative as well. 50 and sunny felt good. Anyway, I was working with the Access HD box that was getting hot and it is failing. The signal was all over the place and it started getting on my nerves. I pulled the AD DB2 from the side of the house and I am considering mounting it somewhere else. In the LOS to the NE there is a house across the street and I am going to have to get this thing on top of the house to make a considerable difference I think. Now that I have a converter box to replace, this whole project is getting frustrating. I still refuse to go back to cable and pay a large bill.

Do you have any ideas on having someone install it, or should I scale the roof and do it myself. Also, where would I connect the ground on it? I was thinking of putting it in the middle center of the house at the highest point, but it may become a lightning magnet living in Eastern Kansas.

Thanks,

Rob

GroundUrMast · 11-Mar-2011, 5:16 AM

General tips re. locating install service providers: http://forum.tvfool.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Re. Grounding: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901

rgallop · 11-Mar-2011, 10:51 PM

G.U.M.,

I will check out the links. Some new developments. Last night out of curiosity I hooked the AD DB2 directly to the converter boxes (3) via a 4 ft coax cable. I was amazed to find that I was getting 100% signal on all channels but a couple that were 80 some percent. Inside with little aiming of the antenna. This antenna is truly powerful.

Tomorrow, I am going to hook it to the cables runs from my junction box to narrow down the bad connections/cables. One thing to note is that while testing one of the HD Access HTA 1080's it was very hot as noted before, but this time it smelled like an electrical short. At the time it was doing this the signal % was all over the place. I returned it to Wal-Mart today for a refund. I am looking to buy a better one if you have suggestions. Also, a good place to buy quality splitters and RG6 or better cabling. Radio Shack is just too darn expensive. Thanks again for you time and help.

Rob

GroundUrMast · 11-Mar-2011, 11:03 PM

With the signal levels indicated in your report, I would expect the DB-2 to deliver those results. Even with 100' of RG-6 (in good condition and good connections) you should have plenty of signal.

Coax in the weather can hold up for years, but once water gets inside, replace it.

John Candle · 12-Mar-2011, 12:13 AM

Many of the Access HD converter boxes are Defective , get Real Extra Hot and stop working . I have replaced some that get so Hot you can not hold your had on top of the box. If you can , return it for a refund. . . Here is a short list of the best converter boxes , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=380

rgallop · 12-Mar-2011, 12:28 PM

I returned the one that was getting very hot yesterday. I think I will head back to Wal-Mart with the other 2 today! It was getting so hot at times I thought it was a fire hazzard. I tried calling their tech support last night and wasn't surprised to find no one answered. Thanks again for the input. I am going to get my OTA tv working correctly yet!

rgallop · 15-Mar-2011, 12:05 AM

Over the weekend I had time to get everything setup. I took the 2 other Access HD boxes back to Walmart for a full refund. They didn't argue with me when I said they were a fire hazard! I purchased new RCA boxes from Target and they work great with no overheating, as well as locking in the signal. I now pick up all 23 Kansas City stations with no trouble.

A big thanks to G.U.M., John Candle, and Dave L. You guys really put all of this into simplified terms and point the average TV user in the right direction.

Very happy to be done with cable/sat bills!

I was also going to ask what you guys think about FTA Sat TV? Good or bad idea?

Rob

John Candle · 15-Mar-2011, 3:37 AM

FTA is very good , you will receive many more channels for free. KU Band FTA uses a small dish. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=265 Teleview has provided information that is clear and easy to understand.

rgallop · 15-Mar-2011, 11:58 PM

Thanks John. I will check into it. It will be a longer term project, as I have to justify the cost of getting more free channels to the wife. It should be fairly easy to do once I convince her that most of the receivers have a DVR.