Extreme Measures Attempt - Canadian Island (B.C.)

[zippibye]

Located at one of the southeastern-most points in British Columbia's Southern Gulf Islands, our home is within a couple of miles of the U.S. border. Our potential TV market includes Vancouver, Victoria, Whatcom/Skagit Counties in NW Washington, and the greater Seattle area.

Of course we'd like to capture as many stations as possible from all the surrounding markets, but in particular the Seattle stations, generally about 85 miles out to the southeast. For what it's worth, we received many Seattle stations in analog years ago, with a rotor-equipped mast antenna in the same general configuration as envisioned now, but with zero amplification. Some Seattle stations had compromised picture quality, but if I recall correctly, KCTS and KIRO were quite decent.

A few notes regarding the antenna environment: My listed height of 22' is above ground level. I'm not sure what Google Maps' elevation logic would be for my location (I used Google for the coordinates, since our address was not in the TVF database), since the mast would be barely set back from a bank leading to the beach. I'd add 15' to get an above sea level figure, which may have significance since most of my TV signals will be coming across open water. So it could be stated the antenna would be 37' above sea level. Also, the closest station (49 et al) has some tree LOS restrictions, and other nearby stations to the SW (21 et al) have a close-in terrain interruption to LOS. Otherwise, it's open water for about 15 miles. Then, terrain of the San Juan Islands lies between us and Seattle. The highest of that terrain hosts transmission towers for three stations 16 miles east, that simply blast our location with signal. However, the crow-flys path to Seattle passes over somewhat lower terrain, more to the east-southeast.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b944dc6ec0e45

I'm considering a top-end fringe antenna such as the Winegard HD8200U on a rotor. I assume amplification will be necessary, but I'm uncertain of the best choice in that regard. BTW, cable run from the mast head to TV would be about 35 feet. I'd appreciate opinions regarding the prospects for receiving Seattle stations, and specific equipment recommendations. Thanks!

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The Tvfool Digital Current Plus Pending Applications Included Tv Radar Report and Channel List shows the first 4 Tv stations in the Green reception zone and easy to receive.

The Tv stations in the Red reception zone are much Weaker of signal strength.

To see if signal strengths improve with higher antenna heights.

Please make and post 3 more tvfool reports with antenna heights of , 40 , 60 , 75 , feet above ground.

Use the Tvfool mapping.

Go to the Tvfool home page and click on , >>Start MAPS<< .

Select a location some where around the area that you live and then move the pointer to your exact location and make and post the tvfool reports.

[StephanieS]

Hi Zippibye,

This is one for GroundURMast. He's the western Washington guru. I can see him perhaps giving you a two antenna suggestion.

I know of people in Vancouver proper have built systems that receive Seattle stations semi-reliably. Much of it in this situation and being outside of deep fringe is your location. The people who've grabbed Seattle signals in the lower mainland have had that clear shot towards Seattle. If you can get that, you may get lucky.

One of negatives in the transition to digital over-the-air TV is that unlike analog which slowly fades to oblivion with distance, digital is there or it isn't. A semi-snowy Seattle you'd have received 15 years ago may not even decode in the digital world: not enough signal. At least analog would provide picture albeit snowily.

I'm interested to hear his recommendation in this situation.

In my system experience, the weakest I've been able to grab is about 7db of field strength. Your situation will need things working to your advantage the TV fool map doesn't account for.

Cheers.

[zippibye]

Per Teleview's suggestion, I'm providing additional elevations on the map. But my closer scrutiny of the results raises a question. What's up with the rounding of geographic coordinates? I determined the exact antenna mast location by marking it on Google Maps and then reading the lat/long
(48.736684, -123.184859). TV Foll evidently rounds it to the nearest hundreth (48.74, -123.18) as reflected in the map query results. The rounding leads to a 1600' inaccuaracy! Depending on circumstances that could prove very misleading. In my case, the map location is 1600' northeast, on a cluster of rocks in the ocean that are at sea level. In my opinion, this "bogus location" bears enough similairty to the real installation point to be useful, especially considering that the view from north (clockwise) to south is unobstructed across open water in both cases.

Since my property is at least 15' higher than the rounded coordinates, I added a 90' perspective too. Keep in mind the real above ground level spec at the house would be minus 15' feet (at least) assuming the TV Fool map is correctly referencing sea level at the reference lat/long.

40' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94430f693b4e

60' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94e5aea4b82c

75' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b9442e990385a

90' - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94117e76057c

[tomfoolery]

Are you sure it's not simply redacting the last three decimal places for display? To keep your privacy, what there is of it at least?

[zippibye]

Originally Posted by tomfoolery

Are you sure it's not simply redacting the last three decimal places for display? To keep your privacy, what there is of it at least?

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. I guess this is one for an administrator?

Wouldn't a street address be displayed if I had used that method to build a map? It's up to me as the user whether to share a report, so I am a bit skeptical that any privacy concern is automatically employed. Also, if you look at the latitude, the fourth digit indicates rounding, not redaction. The longitude would round and redact to the same number.

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Looks like the first Tvfool report at 22 feet antenna height above ground and the 75 foot antenna height above ground are the same location and are showing the best signal strengths.

The other antenna heights of , 40 , 60 , 90 , feet antenna heights above ground are much Weaker signal strengths and different location then the , 22 and 75 feet antenna heights above ground.

The 22 and 75 feet antenna heights is what I will make recommendation for.

A small improvement in signal strength at 75 feet antenna height is shown.

The small improvement in signal strength is not worth going to 75 feet antenna height above ground , first.

Recommend install antennas at about 25 feet or more if you can do more with out jumping through a lot of hoops.

25 feet or so will be a good Test reception antenna height.

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CHAN-DT Real UHF channel 31 is in between , CHEK UHF channel 49 to the North at about 353 degrees magnetic compass direction , and , KVOS Real UHF channel 35 , KBCB Real UHF channel 19 , K24IC Real UHF channel 24 to the east at about 87 degree magnetic compass direction.

For reception of the above Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , aim a Antennas Direct , DB8e antenna at about 49 degree magnetic compass direction , CHAN channel 31.

Here is how to a aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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All Testing of reception is done with a run of coax from the antenna through a open door or window , direct to 1 Tv.

No splitters.

Test reception , without and with a , RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier.

When testing reception without the preamplifier , All parts of the preamplifier must be disconnected , disconnect the preamp unit , disconnect the power inserter , disconnect the power supply.

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The Tv Must Channel scan for the , ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , often named the ~ Antenna Channels ~ ATSC Channels ~ DTV Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable Tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable Tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup Menu and select ~ Antenna Channels ~ DTV Channels ~ ATSC Channels ~ Air Channels~.

Channel scan for the ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels.

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For Testing reception of the Much Weaker Signal Strength UHF Digital Broadcast Tv Stations Channels in the directions of , 129 , 135 , 181 , degree magnetic compass direction , kEPX ION thru to KZJO MyNetwork.

Turn the DB8e antenna to about 150 degree magnetic compass direction.

The RCA preamplifier will need to be connected.

And rescan for channels.

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Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.

www.ronard.com/909911.html
Use the , ronard (911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mounts.

www.ronard.com/Tripod%200703/4712.html
Use the , ronard(4712-50-10) , 10 foot tripod antenna mount.

www.ronard.com/ychim.html
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

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One more Tv station might be receivable , KSTW , VHF channel 11 , The CW is a long shot , if you will like to try for it the install a , www.antennacraft.net , Y10-7-13 , VHF channels 7 thru 13 antenna and aim it in the direction of about 135 degree magnetic compass direction.

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As always , the starting antenna aim direction is the ---> starting antenna aim direction.

The antenna can aim and location can be adjusted for best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a , Signal Strength Meter , and some Digital Tv's also have a , Signal Quality Meter.

Signal Quality is Important for reliable reception.

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If reception of the Tv stations is Ok.

Then for Over All Reception I recommend 2 Separate Antenna Systems.

A DB8e for reception of the , East to North group of Tv stations.

And a Separate DB8e antenna and possibly the Y10-7-13 antenna for reception of the Tv stations from 129 to 181 degree magnetic compass direction.

The 129 to 181 degree , group of Tv stations Will Require the RCA preamp and if the DB8e and Y10-7-13 are used then the RCA preamp will be operated in the separate antenna mode.

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The East to North group may or may not require a RCA preamp.

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Testing for reception of all Tv stations is what you will be doing.

The first 4 Tv stations in the Green reception zone are Plug and Play , the reset of the Tv stations Are Not Plug and Play.

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The Separate antenna systems for reception of the , East and North group of Tv stations and separate antenna system for reception of the group of tv stations from 129 to 181 degree magnetic compass direction are ,

Separate antenna systems All The Way to Each Tv Location and at each Tv location a Remote control A/B antenna switch is connected so as to change antenna systems , A/B antenna switching is Channel Surfing Friendly.
The remote control A/B switch is model number 32-4425 at , www.mcmelectronics.com .
www.saveandreplay.com has the same A/B antenna switch.

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Yes as a antenna rotator can be used and not A/B antenna switching.

However Know This , antenna rotation with a antenna rotator Is Not channel surfing friendly , must wait for antenna to rotate , and , their Will Be Domestic Situations About The Direction The Antenna is Aimed.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

www.saveandreplay.com

www.trentondistributors.com

www.amazon.ca

www.amazon.com

www.antennacraft.net

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Here is a way to receive more Network Tv channels for Free.

FTA-ST is FTA= Free To Air Satellite Tv.

The situation with FTA-ST is , Free is Free.

What their is to receive is Free.

FTA-ST is not about getting pay movie services for free , FTA-ST is not about getting all the pay channels for free.

FTA-ST is about Tv networks for free.

What is Free is Free.

FTA-ST as the free services are structured now , started in the year 1997.

FTA-ST with a Small Dish reception is transmitted in the KU Band of frequencies.

The FTA small dish is bigger then the small dishes used for receiving dish network or direct Tv.

And so that every one reading this clear on the understanding.

FTA ---> Is Not dish network and Is Not direct Tv and Is Not any of the other pay services such as shaw direct or any other pay service.

FTA is received in , Canada , USA , Mexico , and all around the world.

Here are some places to start to learn about FTA.

www.ftalist.com

www.manhattan-digital.net

[Jammer]

Not sure how you'll be able to do it. Even up high you're still just getting tropospheric scatter from Seattle so height won't help you.

Maybe a horizontal/vertical stack of 4 of the highest gain antennas you can find. I like my 91XG, maybe that would be a good choice.

Worth trying perhaps but realize you may end up with an expensive experiment that doesn't provide useful reception.

You could start with a single 91XG and see if you can find a location where you can fit 4 of them and at least marginal reception. If you get any reception at all under ideal conditions then the 5 dB of additional gain that you could hope for from an array might be enough to give you something usable.