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Old 17-Nov-2017, 5:23 PM   #1
William P
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Attic Rig

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60edaecb1027c6

I get zero reception from indoor antennas due to metal foil on the sheetrock.
For the hurricane I installed a not too big attic abtenna It is an old school aluminum tubing style.. I chose it because of the large number of close by TV towers, and no ground starp required.During the hurricane it worked perfectly. Due to the close TV towers to the south, and the large number of Spanish channels there I pointed it north to pull in extra stations.
After the hurricane was over they opened up the airport. I'm a couple miles west of the airport and under the glide slope for landing on most days. Planes come in to Ft lauderdale Hollywood International about every 10 minutes ( no they don't align themselves with the commercial breaks). This results in total loss of signal. i do have the bigger GE antenna but it says it needs a ground. and I'm not sure a more sensitive antenna is the solution. I have plenty of stations to watch. I would be very happy with this except for the aircraft issue.
Wouls an aluminum shield, or screen above the antenna disperse the interference, or is the whole signal scarmbled and that's it?

Last edited by William P; 17-Nov-2017 at 5:34 PM.
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Old 17-Nov-2017, 8:22 PM   #2
JoeAZ
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Greetings,

You have a number of issues.
ANY kind of metal, foil, aluminum, etc, etc make
for unpredictable reception issues. I would first,
point your antenna towards the Miami stations to
your Southeast. See how that works for you. You
may have to experiment to see what antenna
position works best for you. Trees, aircraft, buildings,
etc, etc all affect reception. How close are your
trees, buildings, etc to the North and Southeast?
Do you have a tile roof????? Big factor in reception!

Last edited by JoeAZ; 17-Nov-2017 at 8:25 PM.
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Old 17-Nov-2017, 9:03 PM   #3
William P
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There are no trees buildings etc. The attic antenna solved the foil in the walls problem. Reception was great until the aircraft started flying after the hurricane. I can hear the plane coming just before the signal goes away. I have a shingle roof over plywood with 2X4 trussing. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 17-Nov-2017, 10:46 PM   #4
JoeAZ
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The aircraft are probably causing multipath, causing your
signals to drop out momentarily. The broadcast signals
bounce off the aircraft to your antenna, arriving either before
or after the main signal, causing the issues. Have you
tried orienting the antenna to Miami towers? Have you tried
to see what happens when you have an antenna a distance
from your home or up near the roof??? It will take some
experimentation to find a solution but patience and trial and
error usually prevail......
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 12:15 AM   #5
William P
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I live in an HOA which is legally a Condominium. so moving it isn't an option. I can play around with it in the attic. I was hoping there was a known cure for this. Thanks anyway.
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 1:11 AM   #6
JoeAZ
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By FEDERAL LAW, an HOA cannot prevent, impede, or
prohibit an OTA television antenna with very limited
exceptions. If there are Dish and Directv dishes in
your HOA, a tv antenna is covered under the same law.
If you have a small balcony or similar where you can
aim a small antenna Southeast, that could be your ticket
to good reception.
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 1:59 AM   #7
ADTech
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Quote:
an HOA cannot prevent, impede, or prohibit an OTA television antenna with very limited exceptions
And one of those exceptions includes condos where the property owner, resident, or tenant does NOT have exclusive use of the outside area. William indicated he's in condo.

Quote:
Would an aluminum shield, or screen above the antenna disperse the interference,
That's one of the few possible solutions. Others include a vertically stacked antenna such as a 4 or 8 bay (for UHF) or vertically stacked Yagis that minimize vertical beamwidth.

Quote:
the bigger GE antenna but it says it needs a ground.
There is no requirement to ground an antenna that is not outdoors.
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 3:23 AM   #8
William P
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I'm aware of the HOA laws. I can put a pole up since I have a single family home. But I can't "move it away from the building" since the yard is common area.
Thanks for telling me about no ground required in the attic. I'm not sure the bigger rig would help, or if it would just pick up the interference form further away!
I'll try pointing it towards the SE. I am just south of the flight path (300 yards) so maybe that's making it worse. I get more stations than I need in this urban market so I think I'll let the little antenna ride for now. I know a lot of people need to really reach out to get stations but I don't think there's much in it for me. The news from Miami is about all the excitement I can stand. I really enjoyed the TV during the hurricane. I had a 6" TV running off of a few computer APCs I had chrged up and i always knew what was going. But now in everyday life it's not what I hoped for. The funny thing is it isn't every channel that does this. Just the ones I watch most.Or maybe I just surf through the others. Thanks guys.
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 3:30 AM   #9
William P
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So there are antennae that don't pick up vertical interference? 4 bay? Yagi? I guess I need to look into those. The one I have consists of 3 "Bow ties" in various sizes, and a couple of wide narrow loops mounted on edge. All in about 5/16" aluminum tubing. Hmmm.

I found this. It mentions stacking 2 identical antennae. I actuall own 2 of these. i was keeping 2 houses during the storm and wanted TV at both.

Problems with reception may be reported to the FCC, but before contacting the FCC it is recommended that affected persons attempt to troubleshoot possible solutions. Possible solutions for picture flutter involve the homeowner making adjustments to the position of the antenna, purchasing a highly directive television antenna, or using two identical television antennas stacked.Would I connect these with a COAX splitter installed backwards?

Last edited by William P; 18-Nov-2017 at 3:42 AM.
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 4:29 AM   #10
rabbit73
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A map of your area showing your location and the airport to the east:



An old flight path map for noise reduction:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg William P TVF Map.JPG (84.8 KB, 271 views)
File Type: jpg William P TVF Flight Paths.jpg (169.5 KB, 267 views)
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Old 18-Nov-2017, 3:57 PM   #11
William P
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Thanks for that info. The south runway corridor is right over my house. They use that for general aviation but heavies use it also. The North corridor is over the golf course to the north of me. Maybe my problem is the north facing antenna is getting a signal from the towers to the south, and an echo from the aircraft to the north. I'll get it turned to the south and maybe the planes overhead won't interfere. The terrain is flat, no forest, and the tower sare nearby. But now the signal will have to go through all my roof trusses. Before there was just plywood. It reall yworked great when the airport was shut down. My association has a no generators after 10PM rule. No AC units, no traffic, no generators. Sleeping with my windows open I actually heard crickets! I didn't think they had those any more.
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Old 19-Nov-2017, 1:22 AM   #12
rabbit73
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Quote:
Would an aluminum shield, or screen above the antenna disperse the interference, or is the whole signal scarmbled and that's it?
If the shield, like aluminum foil on cardboard or a metal screen, is above the antenna so that the antenna doesn't "see" the aircraft above, but does see the TV signal, it might help.

A 4-bay antenna would be better than a Yagi, because it has a narrower vertical beamwidth:





It is possible to restrict the acceptance angle of an antenna even more by putting it in an enclosure:







Quote:
I'll get it turned to the south and maybe the planes overhead won't interfere.
That's a good idea to try. Where we were living before, the antenna faced a road with heavy traffic. The cars going by in front of the antenna only affected the weaker signals.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CM4221elevHDTVprim2.jpg (83.5 KB, 242 views)
File Type: jpg 91XGelevHDTVprim2.jpg (80.8 KB, 244 views)
File Type: jpg NaivarA-G Ant6_2.jpg (104.8 KB, 240 views)
File Type: jpg NaivarA-G Ant7_2.jpg (111.1 KB, 239 views)
File Type: jpg NaivarA-G Ant3_2.jpg (109.9 KB, 240 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 19-Nov-2017 at 2:31 AM.
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Old 19-Nov-2017, 7:02 PM   #13
William P
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If the shield, like aluminum foil on cardboard or a metal screen, is above the antenna so that the antenna doesn't "see" the aircraft above, but does see the TV signal, it might help.

So would the aluminum side go up to reflect interference away from the antenna?
Until I turn it to the south it's coming from the side almost as much. I'm not sure which flight path (or both) creates the problem.
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Old 20-Nov-2017, 1:01 AM   #14
rabbit73
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Foil up is OK. If the foil was down, it would probably be the same because the interference would go through the cardboard.

You must understand that your situation is unique, and you should be prepared to do some experimentation to see what works.

If I were there with you, I would want to try as many ideas as I can think of with cardboard and a roll of heavy duty 18" aluminum foil.

If you want to get fancy, you can look for aluminum foil radiant barrier sheathing or AtticFoil, which is probably available in your area.

https://www.google.com/search?q=alum...iw=911&bih=345

AtticFoil will even send you a free sample:
http://www.atticfoil.com/
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Old 21-Nov-2017, 12:10 PM   #15
Jake V
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I just love that photo of the antenna embedded in a trash can by Bill Naivar. But I'll add a warning. If you're a guy looking to chase a difficult signal by putting an antenna in a trash can on your roof, GET YOUR WIFE'S PERMISSION! :-)
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Old 21-Nov-2017, 3:41 PM   #16
ADTech
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Foil orientation is irrelevant, just like shiny side in or shiny side out when baking doesn't matter.

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Old 22-Nov-2017, 3:52 AM   #17
William P
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The solution was simple. Point the antenna at the towers nearby. Due to the small antenna, and the shallow single story attic the tactic of trying for distant stations didn't produce much anyway. No interference, and much better picture quality. The planes overhead don't seem to be a problem, and the ones behind the antenna don't matter now. I may have lost a couple minor stations, but I gained more than I lost. Thanks guys.
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Old 22-Nov-2017, 2:56 PM   #18
rabbit73
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Thanks for the report, William. Glad to hear you have found the solution for reliable reception.

Strong signal + Antenna aimed at transmitter = Good reception
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