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Old 8-Jun-2019, 1:17 PM   #21
kb4
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If you have a decent signal thats viewable with the short coax run I am sure you will be able to get an acceptable signal at the TV with an amplifier. Yes the RCA TVPRAMP has poor quality control etc but I believe there is also a switch that must be set correctly to work on the VHF input so make sure you check for that.
You can use most amplifiers such as the juice for VHF and UHF and it should work for the current setup (just make sure the amp states its for both bands of frequencies) . The problems can occur when you add a separate UHF antenna but want to combine the signals to one coax and they both require amplification.
You can combine the VHF and UHF but u can run in to problems with amplifying each that i won't get into now dealing with 2 different amps on antenna side of a combiner and powering them etc.
Another company that I have not personally used apparently makes a good quality one (Johansson). I would actually like to try one but don't have a need for it now. They have many models in their catalogue that can be a little confusing. I would call them and tell them you want an amp with VHF and UHF inputs to combine two antennas and see what they recommend.
I believe channel master used to make an amp with separate inputs and I seem to remember seeing where they may be offering a model now that does this.
Of course if not too inconvenient you can use two separate coax and amps and an A/B switch.
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Old 8-Jun-2019, 2:52 PM   #22
RMinNJ
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kb4, Thanks.

I'm thinking if I'd like to try a combo UHF/VHF antenna.. I just don't think a tall stack
with the Stellar labs and then a flat panel UHF mounted on my eave/gable is going to be very secure. Im thinking of maybe the Wineguard HD7694P...keeeping everything to the 60 inch stellar size that I apparently need? I think its kind of obvious the vhf channels I need at least 10db gain at the antenna though.
Really learning a lot.

Last edited by RMinNJ; 9-Jun-2019 at 4:24 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 9-Jun-2019, 12:44 PM   #23
kb4
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I think that the HD7694P might not be as good on VHF band as the stellar labs you have which doesn't seem to have much spare signal strength. The HD798P would be more likely to work along the lines of the stellar labs but I realize it is a much larger or at least longer antenna .

Another option would be the larger stellar lab VHF antenna the 30-2476 that might not need amplification and use a UVSJ and a separate UHF antenna, however the db loss of the UVSJ itself would likely put you back at or below the performance of the 30-2475.
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Old 9-Jun-2019, 6:03 PM   #24
kb4
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I also think the flat panel and stellar lab antenna would not be as unstable as you may think. They only need to be about 3 feet apart and they would probably be no more wind load than the HD7698P but I haven't looked at the wind load specs. I just doubt that the HD7694P is going to give reliable vhf band reception for you.

Remember the flat panel would be next to the pole so it may actually cause less movement than the UHF portion of HD794p or certainly the HD798P because there is less rotational torque so to speak and with wind near same plane as "edges" of the antenna it would present very little wind surface area at all.
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Old 10-Jun-2019, 6:12 PM   #25
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMinNJ View Post
kb4, Thanks.

I'm thinking if I'd like to try a combo UHF/VHF antenna.. I just don't think a tall stack
with the Stellar labs and then a flat panel UHF mounted on my eave/gable is going to be very secure. Im thinking of maybe the Wineguard HD7694P...keeeping everything to the 60 inch stellar size that I apparently need? I think its kind of obvious the vhf channels I need at least 10db gain at the antenna though.
Really learning a lot.
When I was a kid, my dad had a gable end mount, but on a long pole that went all the way to, and into the ground. The top of the pole was over the peak of the gable and strapped with lag bolts to the rafter. It was a very secure mount, went through the remnants of several hurricanes. No issues.

and as a side benefit he could send one of us boys out to grab the pole to rotate the direction. No rotor required, lol.

Last edited by rickbb; 10-Jun-2019 at 6:13 PM. Reason: edit to add
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Old 10-Jun-2019, 8:18 PM   #26
RMinNJ
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Thanks rickbb, my asphalt driveway is below the gable as well as light directly in the middle. That sounds likea cool rotation solution.
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Old 11-Jun-2019, 12:16 PM   #27
kb4
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My family also had a vacation property that had a similar setup but the slightly loose clamp that held pole to the house was only on soffit at about 10 feet high. That pole had a large vhf antennae on it and we did the same thing.

There is no reason the mount on the gable area couldn't be off center to avoid the light . You could use a small tripod mount mounted to the asphalt or one of the non penetrating type roof mounts on the driveway or perhaps a separate brace from house at ground level.

Yes, you too could be the proud human rotor just loosen the top of the tripod mount etc to fine tune the aim. No more climbing on the roof!!
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Old 13-Jun-2019, 6:35 PM   #28
RMinNJ
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atmospheric conditions?

Ok... still mucking around .. I picked up an RCA ANT751e and the tiny onn amp just for giggles.

Today it was rainy and cloudy... placed it on a ladder on the driveway. about 5 ft off the ground.

a.) Scanned ...got all my locals i want ; UHFs 33, 28,44 an 7,11, 13 VHF..
and some other non-major ones..

b.) Connected it to my house cable with the ONN amplifier (so farthest TV
about about 100 ft of cable and 3 way splitter. Farthest TV scan; got all the channels I want; UHFs 33, 28,44 an 7,11, 13 VHF... like OMF...exactly what I want.


I will say it was not a perfect conclusion.. as the day cleared up the weakest channel on my report ; UHF 44 (fox channel 5 nyc) was dropping in and out. I would need to try it further up (will need a longer cable) to see if that strengthens 44..

Still for awhile it was like perfect success with a tiny little antenna. Questions
abound;

a.) So if I were to put this little antenna higher on the eave it may be better?
Or would that introduce more noise from other signals .

b.) Weather and atmosphere give the illusion that things are working well?


I did learn that even a small amp helps get the signal through the house cabling which was cool.

Thanks as always for listening.
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Old 13-Jun-2019, 10:47 PM   #29
OTAFAN
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Quote:
Weather and atmosphere give the illusion that things are working well?
Sometimes rain will improve your ground wave and reception will be better. I have seen that happen here at my location in SOCAL LA/OC. Although depending on how heavy weather conditions are, sometimes signals will lower too.

Quote:
So if I were to put this little antenna higher on the eave it may be better?
Or would that introduce more noise from other signals .
I would defer to the other posters above who have given you their recommendations. But as a rule, higher is better depending of course, on your surrounding conditions. However, I've used the RCA 751 and it's a good antenna for moderate to strong signal locations and then some, amplifier improving reception at your location as you said. If it was me, I would continue to pursue your latest findings. I think you might find a more permanent solution, hopefully.

Sorry I could not be more helpful, but perhaps I've nudged you a bit further in the right direction. Looking forward to your next post.....
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Old 14-Jun-2019, 12:42 AM   #30
RMinNJ
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RCA ANT751r vs ANT751e

OTAFAN,

I found an older thread of yours talking about the older RCA751r and the newer RCA 7511?

There were 2 on the shelf at walmart...an ANT751r in a long box and the ANT751e in a shorter box.. I got the shorter box 751e.. From your thread on another site I should have gotten the ANT751r in the longer box...it has more gain for ?? channels?

Thanks for taking an interest in my project...
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Old 14-Jun-2019, 2:12 AM   #31
OTAFAN
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Quote:
There were 2 on the shelf at walmart...an ANT751r in a long box and the ANT751e in a shorter box.. I got the shorter box 751e.. From your thread on another site I should have gotten the ANT751r in the longer box...it has more gain for ?? channels?
Yes, that thread was how I got my "feet wet" on this forum. Rabbit73 and others (sorry I didn't name everyone!), were very helpful in explaining its dynamics and why it has been such a good antenna for many folks across the country. And it was rabbit who pointed out that RCA is noted, unfortunately, for "downsizing" their newest version(s) of said antenna. That is, each time they add another suffix to the existing antenna, or latest version, they take something away from previous one due to "economics." In other words, cheaper not better. You can reread that thread and learn a lot.

So, if you can return the shorter box and pick up the larger one at Walmart, I think you might be doing yourself a favor. You seem to be getting close to achieving what you desire in OTA TV viewing, so I would recommend you continue a similar course and try to "nail it down." You still might have a few more "curve balls" thrown at you, but I think you're close to a "home run." Like rabbit73 has said many times, "you need to get up there on the roof and see what works; and your TV will confirm it."

Please keep us updated. Fingers crossed for your success.....

Here's the link to that thread:

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16264

Last edited by OTAFAN; 14-Jun-2019 at 2:49 AM. Reason: additional
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Old 14-Jun-2019, 12:00 PM   #32
kb4
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good news, i would also try to exchange the antenna if you can,. Either way, I would try added height as possible and observe results. Live with it a while in the various weather conditions and see how it does. If it doesn't work out at least u will know what might need improvement.
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Old 14-Jun-2019, 12:44 PM   #33
Badfish740
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I'm watching this thread with interest as I am also "in the woods" west of NYC in New Jersey, but I'm 50 miles out in Northwest Hunterdon County. I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start another in this forum, just thought I'd humbly ask anyone who is helping RMinNJ to take pity on me as well.
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Old 14-Jun-2019, 12:50 PM   #34
jrgagne99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMinNJ View Post
a.) So if I were to put this little antenna higher on the eave it may be better?
Not necessarily. I encountered a similar situation before finding my eventual antenna solution. I had been hunting all over the roof for reception of a particular channel that my report said should be there. I could not find it on the roof. One day by dumb luck, I found a hot spot for it right in front of my garage door at 5 ft AGL. Moving the antenna left/right or up/down by 2 or more feet would totally lose the signal. One of the senior forum members called it a "ground bounce" as I recall. Constructive interference from the signal arriving from two or more different angles at precisely the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMinNJ View Post
Or would that introduce more noise from other signals .
More noise from other signals (co-channel or adjacent channel) is possible, but I think it is more likely that you will no longer be in an area of constructive interference due to the signal refracting around obstacles in the signal path.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RMinNJ View Post
b.) Weather and atmosphere give the illusion that things are working well?
Yes, that's a tricky one too. For marginal signals, I think it takes 1-2 weeks of regular observations over varied weather conditions before you can be confident in the validity of your antenna location.
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Old 14-Jun-2019, 10:10 PM   #35
RMinNJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740 View Post
I'm watching this thread with interest as I am also "in the woods" west of NYC in New Jersey, but I'm 50 miles out in Northwest Hunterdon County. I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start another in this forum, just thought I'd humbly ask anyone who is helping RMinNJ to take pity on me as well.
I hear you... I will say I was just surprised that I can get signal.. Im basically trying different antennas. I think at 50 miles a larger
antenna should a starting place. Or you can just pick up a smaller one and see what it brings in. The Stellar Labs I tried worked well for VHF...guys here are knowledgable.
Just getting a signal and then seeing where and how it comes in interesting...
I've been using a small TV that I can carry and plug in the different places I try.
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Old 20-Jun-2019, 9:34 PM   #36
RMinNJ
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Ok I again want to thank everyone here for helping and following the thread.

The conclusion will be a let down to some ... I learned so much and have knowledge I need for the future.

Basically I was looking for local OTA TV as my cable ISP will be bringing fiber internet to the area with no TV at first.. I would never pay for a cable boxes for cable TV...I presently have a basic cable TV plan with no cable boxes and stream all other TV. Present solution; I called up my cable co and was able to bump up my internet speed and cancel the basic cable plan I was paying for.. I still get the channels.

Should the channels get blocked or I switch to their fiber offering when it comes or switch ISPs I will need/want an antenna for my locals. That is where this has not been a fruitless endeavor. I know I can get a TV signal
now..and I have a better idea of the antennas needed.

For my location it seems I could pull the stations in with a RCA 7511 antenna but most probably need a larger one for a more reliable signal. The signal for the highest VHF (13) and the highest UHF (40) were weakest and difficult. The best location was probably on the top eave/gable of the house. I was able to see with amplification the signal could make it through my inside cables to my TVs.

Another important thing I learned is costs. Very few local installers, each wanting several hundreds in labor before my or their antenna costs ..without promising a signal. I was up on a ladder and the top eave is a scary place...cheapest solution remains mounting my own antenna though. The price to receive local channels if hiring someone seems could get really expensive. Altogether I had about $16 in return fees for the antennas and amplifier I tried... totally worth it. I take great comfort in knowing it is possible to get my locals and I'm not dependent on my ISP.
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Old 21-Jun-2019, 8:02 AM   #37
kb4
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glad you let us know the final outcome. As you said att least now you know you could get OTA tv if needed.
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