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Old 28-Oct-2019, 3:30 AM   #1
sudheeshb
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Antenna Recommendation

Hello,

Tv fool report below. Could you please recommend the best outdoor antenna for this?. Also can you please indicate which are the channels that I can receive with out any signal loss based on this tv fool report?


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90383e9432ad0b.

I am planning to keep the antenna in the roof/similar place. I live in single family house. I am looking for channels like Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS etc.

Any help is appreciated.

Last edited by sudheeshb; 28-Oct-2019 at 9:45 PM.
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Old 29-Oct-2019, 2:51 AM   #2
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
Hello,

Tv fool report below. Could you please recommend the best outdoor antenna for this?. Also can you please indicate which are the channels that I can receive with out any signal loss based on this tv fool report?


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90383e9432ad0b.

I am planning to keep the antenna in the roof/similar place. I live in single family house. I am looking for channels like Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS etc.

Any help is appreciated.
Hello, sudheeshb. It looks like you have moved since your last thread:
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16259

Thank you for the new signal report.

Here is a report from rabbitears.info which should have a more accurate list of channels:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=23429

Most of the signals you want are coming from the west and a few from the south.

You will need to make some tests for reception, maybe with a Winegard HD7694P antenna.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 29-Oct-2019 at 3:02 AM.
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Old 29-Oct-2019, 4:10 AM   #3
sudheeshb
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Thanks for the reply. Yeah. I moved!. Some questions.

1. I do see another big antenna ( Winegard HD8200U ) along with HD7694P in Amazon. Does it help if I go for the bigger one?

2. Do I need to use any pre-amp?

3. What about this antenna RCA ANT751R?. This seems to have good rating.

4. What is the minimum signal strength required for a good reception?
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Old 29-Oct-2019, 8:49 AM   #4
OTAFAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
1. I do see another big antenna ( Winegard HD8200U ) along with HD7694P in Amazon. Does it help if I go for the bigger one?

2. Do I need to use any pre-amp?

3. What about this antenna RCA ANT751R?. This seems to have good rating.

4. What is the minimum signal strength required for a good reception?
Hi sudheeshb:

The Winegard HD8200U has more gain than the HD7694P, but it's much more expensive. I'm guessing that if rabbit73 recommended the HD7649P for your location, he probably thought it would be sufficient for your needs. But I'm sure he could elaborate. Here is a link for the HD8200U with specs that might be helpful. Open up the first tab in the upper left corner, "TV Antennas & Supplies," then scroll down to the bottom to "Outdoor Antennas." While you're on the site, you could check out the other two antennas mentioned as well.

https://www.solidsignal.com/

As far as a preamp is concerned, you'll have to get up on your roof (Safety First!), and see if you can pull in the stations you want with adequate signal strengths. You do have some 1 & 2 Edge issues according to your signal reports, and it's possible you will need a preamp and amp. But you'll have to test out the antenna you use.

Here is a TV Fool thread link that goes into detail about the RCA ANT751R. It should answer most all your questions. I have used it and it's elder brother, the HD7000R at my location some 35 miles south of Mt. Wilson, here in SOCAL LA/OC with excellent results. I'm in a strong to moderate signal location, BTW.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16264

I'm not sure about your minimum signal strength question, but if you go with rabbit73s antenna recommendation, it might not be too relevant. He could give you a more definitive answer or if other Techs chime in, I'm sure they could answer that for you as well.

Anyway, all the best to you! And please check back in with an updated report when you've finished getting your antenna set up. I would be interested in how it goes for you. Thanks!

Last edited by OTAFAN; 29-Oct-2019 at 9:13 AM. Reason: additional
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Old 29-Oct-2019, 2:57 PM   #5
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
Thanks for the reply. Yeah. I moved!. Some questions.

1. I do see another big antenna ( Winegard HD8200U ) along with HD7694P in Amazon. Does it help if I go for the bigger one?
The HD820U does have a little more gain on UHF (real channels 14-51) and VHF-High (7-13) than the HD7694P, but the HD7694P should have sufficient gain if it is mounted in the clear with no objects blocking the signals. A preamp can be added if needed.

The HD8200U also covers VHF-Low (real channels 2-6) which has longer elements that make it much wider. You do have some VHF-Low channels on your report but they are weaker and I thought you probably would not want them. If you do want them, you will need the HD8200U. The VHF-Low channels have a red band:



There will be some channel changes because of Repack by the FCC. If you look at your rabbitears.info report you will see changes in the Repack Info column. That column doesn't show in the image above:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=23429

Repack Plan:
https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

Phase 8: 1/18/2020 to 3/13/2020
Phase 9: 3/14/2020 to 5/1/2020

I'm concerned about the aim of your antenna. I hope that aiming the antenna west will give you the channels you need, without needing to also aim the antenna south.
Quote:
2. Do I need to use any pre-amp?
You might; try it without first.
Quote:
3. What about this antenna RCA ANT751R?. This seems to have good rating.
The ANT751 is a good antenna for strong signal locations, but I think you need the extra gain of the HD7694P. You can try the ANT751 first if you want to see how it will do.
Quote:
4. What is the minimum signal strength required for a good reception?
That is a technical question that requires a technical answer.

The signal must be strong enough to have an SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) of at least 16 dB. That is, the signal must be at least 16 dB stronger than the noise on that channel.

When you do a channel scan, the tuner will not pick up a signal that isn't strong enough. Of the channels that the tuner does pick up, some will be stronger than others. The strength of OTA signals will vary, so the weakest channels that the tuner picks up will be marginal; better on some days than other days.

If your TV has a signal strength indicator, you will soon find out how strong a signal must be for reliable reception.

In terms of a TVFool report, the signal must have a NM (Noise Margin) of at least 0 dB. The NM calculation assumes a dipole antenna is being used, so you can add your antenna gain to the NM for a channel that is listed.



If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.



If you want me to look at a satellite view of your location, you can give me the coordinates of your antenna by PM like you did last time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sudheeshbTVFreport10-28-2019.JPG (115.6 KB, 448 views)
File Type: jpg sudheeshbTVFreportRE10-28-2019_1.jpg (290.4 KB, 448 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 29-Oct-2019 at 4:20 PM.
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Old 29-Oct-2019, 11:15 PM   #6
sudheeshb
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Thanks for replies OTAFAN, rabbit73!.

I managed to get Antenna Direct ClearStream 4V just for testing. I placed the antenna in some random location ( around 10 feet above the ground ). It was able to pull NBC ( 11.1 and 11.3 ) and KICU ( 36.1 ) with out any issues. Fox and CBS doesn't work most of the time and I see heavy signal loss ( blocking artifacts ) most of the time.

I will try with HD7694P. I don' t think I need any VHF channels. I am interested mainly in Fox, CBS, ABC, PBS and NBC.

I had sent the co-ordinates you to rabbit73. Thanks!

The signal power in the tvfool report starts with -35.9db ( in the picture above). Some how it doesn't match with signal power that you have mentioned!
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Old 30-Oct-2019, 2:30 AM   #7
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
I managed to get Antenna Direct ClearStream 4V just for testing. I placed the antenna in some random location ( around 10 feet above the ground ). It was able to pull NBC ( 11.1 and 11.3 ) and KICU ( 36.1 ) with out any issues. Fox and CBS doesn't work most of the time and I see heavy signal loss ( blocking artifacts ) most of the time.
KICU is your strongest signal. It is coming from the south. You have two NBCs. One from KSTS coming from the south on UHF and a weaker one from KNTV on VHF from the west. The "V" of the ClearStream 4V is the horizontal rod antenna for VHF-High channels 7-13.



Quote:
I will try with HD7694P. I don' t think I need any VHF channels. I am interested mainly in Fox, CBS, ABC, PBS and NBC.
Yes, I agree you don't need any VHF-Low channels 2-6 with the red band in your report, but you might need some VHF-High channels 7-13 with the yellow band in your report.
Quote:
I had sent the co-ordinates you to rabbit73. Thanks!
Thank your for the coordinates. I see a tree that might block signals from the south if your antenna is on the roof. I also showed you a satellite photo in the PM but I will not show it here unless you say it is OK to show it here.
Quote:
The signal power in the tvfool report starts with -35.9db ( in the picture above). Some how it doesn't match with signal power that you have mentioned!
There are two ways to show the strength of a signal in a TVFool report. You can use Noise Margin (NM) in dB or Signal Power in dBm. KICU is very strong. A very weak signal would be KVIE-DT PBS real channel 9, virtual channel 6.1 in the red with a NM of 1.1 dB and a signal power of -89.7 dBm.



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

Attached Images
File Type: jpg AD C4V.jpg (84.5 KB, 409 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 30-Oct-2019 at 3:14 AM.
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Old 30-Oct-2019, 10:12 PM   #8
sudheeshb
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Hello Rabbit73,

Thanks for the details as usual!. It was very helpful. Also thanks for PM with the satellite images.

One question. How is ClearStream 4V compared to HD7694P for my use case?
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Old 31-Oct-2019, 1:57 AM   #9
rabbit73
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Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
Hello Rabbit73,

Thanks for the details as usual!. It was very helpful. Also thanks for PM with the satellite images.

One question. How is ClearStream 4V compared to HD7694P for my use case?
The two are very similar for UHF, but the HD7694P has more gain on VHF-High (7-13) for KGO ABC on real channel 7.

My other concern is that both antennas are directional for UHF, which makes correct aim critical, but you have channels in two different directions. You might be able to get what you want in one direction; if not, then you might need two antennas.
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Old 31-Oct-2019, 6:39 PM   #10
sudheeshb
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Thanks!. I plan to buy HD7694P and use it along with ClearStream 4V. Some more questions.

1. What is the best way to combine signals from these two antennas?

2. Which is better suited for my use case?. ClearStream 2V or 4V?
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Old 1-Nov-2019, 5:55 PM   #11
jrgagne99
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Question #1 is a whole new can of worms. You can try using a splitter in reverse first, but you will likely need two separate downleads and an A/B switch a the TV.
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Old 1-Nov-2019, 7:08 PM   #12
Tim
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Originally Posted by jrgagne99 View Post
Question #1 is a whole new can of worms. You can try using a splitter in reverse first, but you will likely need two separate downleads and an A/B switch a the TV.
Or a custom combiner designed for the channels at your location. There is a seller on eBay (jan_jenca) who makes and sells them at reasonable prices.
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Old 1-Nov-2019, 11:21 PM   #13
rabbit73
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Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
Thanks!. I plan to buy HD7694P and use it along with ClearStream 4V. Some more questions.

1. What is the best way to combine signals from these two antennas?

2. Which is better suited for my use case?. ClearStream 2V or 4V?
1. The easiest way is to use a splitter in reverse as a combiner, but that usually doesn't work very well. When the same signals from each antenna reach the combining point, they will interfere with each other if they are not in phase (arrive at the same instant).

If you don't have all the channels when the two antennas are combined that you had when the antennas were separate, that method of combining doesn't work for your location.

Sometimes it is necessary to have separate antennas and use an A/B switch to select which antenna you want to use, as suggested by jrgagne99. If your TV isn't able to add a channel after scan, it will be necessary to rescan every time you switch antennas.

To avoid a rescan, you can connect the main antenna to the TV antenna input and connect the second antenna to a separate tuner like the Channel Master 7004 converter box. Then, connect the output of the tuner to an HDMI input of the TV. To switch to the other antenna, just switch the TV input.

If you have more than one TV, it gets complicated. You would need a custom combiner for the channels involved as mentioned above by Tim, which would combine the signals from both antennas in one coax.

I know you want a definite answer, but I am not able to give that to you. It is my hope that you will be able to get everything you want with one antenna aimed west, but you will probably need a channel from the south.

The solution to your reception problem will depend upon how many TVs you have and the results of your antenna aiming tests. I can't do that for you.

2. The ClearStream 2V has a little less gain than the 4V on UHF. It has a wider beamwidth than the 4V, but probably not quite enough beamwidth for the 100 degree difference between the two directions if aimed in between; you can try it if you like. Both antennas have the same dipole for VHF.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 2-Nov-2019 at 3:36 AM.
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Old 2-Nov-2019, 9:47 PM   #14
rabbit73
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Originally Posted by sudheeshb View Post
Looks like my TV is tuned for 7 ( ABC VHF ) instead of 35 ( UHF ) by default. When I press channel number 35 it goes automatically to 7. I will dig deep into this. I have two tuners ( Samsung TV ) and HDHomeRun.
You could use your TV tuner for the main antenna and the HDHR for the second antenna.
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Old 4-Nov-2019, 2:57 PM   #15
ckwsp101_tv
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KGO (RF 7) from Sutro tower using aux antenna until 5/1/2020.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post58770688

At my location KGO went away when station switched to aux antenna.

Hope you have better luck.
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Old 5-Nov-2019, 5:56 AM   #16
sudheeshb
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Quote:
You could use your TV tuner for the main antenna and the HDHR for the second antenna.
Thanks for this!. I still have the HDHomeRun with me. I am in process of hiring a handy man for the antenna installation on chimney. Appreciate the time and effort that you spend for helping others!.
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