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Old 3-Dec-2015, 2:20 PM   #1
37pro
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Help selecting an antenna

Hello, I am interested in getting an hd antenna and would like a suggestion on which to buy.
I have a ranch on top of a hill with lots of trees around.
I would like to put it in the attic just for ease of installation.
I could put it on the roof with a mast if it will help get better reception.
I am unsure how to get the wires down from the roof (coax and ground) as my chimney is in the center of the roof.
I am not saying money is no object but from what I can tell $200 to $300 should cover a good install.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b97d51bb23b1f2
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90

Thanks in advance.
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Old 3-Dec-2015, 9:37 PM   #2
rickbb
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The good news is you have lots of strong signals from mostly one direction, east.

The not all that bad news is you have both low VHF and UHF and will need either a quality antenna that gets both, or separate antennas joined with a combiner for that.

Personally I'd go for the roof mount, it's almost always going to get better signal. Attic installs are trial and error, if your roof has a gable end pointed east you may get good results. If your house has foil backed insulation on the walls, roof or shingles you may not get good results.

Roof mounting is not all that hard, even with a chimney in the center. You just use those old fashioned stand offs that keep the coax/ground wire up from the shingles a few inches down the ridge line to the end of the house. then go straight down to the grounding block(s) and into the house. Usually into the craw space and then up through the floor. If varies depending on house construction.

Edit to add;

You can also do a gable end mounting and just come straight down the outside wall. The bracket for the mast will hold it out about a foot from the house to clear any overhang.

Last edited by rickbb; 3-Dec-2015 at 9:40 PM.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 6:10 AM   #3
MattZuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37pro View Post
Hello, I am interested in getting an hd antenna and would like a suggestion on which to buy.
HD antennas are a little bit of a misnomer. I'm sure you've seen it advertised but there is nothing HD or special about a TV antenna. In fact if you have an older one the odds are higher it'll pickup VHF-LO (2-6) as someone already pointed out.

WJLP - 3 (33) - METV
WPXO - 4 (34) - MundoMax
WKOB - 2 (42) - RetroTV (42.7)


I'm not 100% sure this database is accurate as WJLP claims the FCC ordered them to move to UHF. WKOB applied to be moved according to Wiki. WPXO looks up on rabitears.info as already being on UHF.

So if you want these two stations right away then as RickBB stated you'll need either an antenna that does VHF-Low or another antenna. If you don't care about these stations then don't worry about it.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 4:11 PM   #4
37pro
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Thanks for the response. I definitely would like to get the METV. could you suggest a most bang for my buck antenna for my situation. I would prefer the one antenna route unless a second antenna was for picking up stations in a different direction.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 6:15 PM   #5
Tower Guy
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WJLP is actually transmitting on RF channel 3. The FCC simply assigned them channel 33 to use as the number programmed into the data stream as an ID number. WJLP can't transmit on channel 33 because that channel is in use by WCBS.

Antennas to consider are the Winegard HD 7084P or Channel Master Advantage 45.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 7:52 PM   #6
37pro
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I looked up the winegaurd and the have selection assistance on their site. Winegaurd suggested their HD-1080. I am not trying to contradict your suggestion just thought you would like to know their input.
Is there a such thing as to much antenna?
I feel that a $60 to $70 is not a big deal and would rather have more antenna than just enough as long as the larger antenna does not hurt the situation.
If bigger is better why not go with the Winegaurd HD8200U at 168" that is 14' I am sure the wife will love that.
I had no idea that these things could get that big.
Thanks again.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 8:52 PM   #7
MattZuke
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Originally Posted by 37pro View Post
I looked up the winegaurd and the have selection assistance on their site. Winegaurd suggested their HD-1080.
That antenna isn't geared for VHF-Low. In fact virtually every antenna advertised as HD is simply not designed for channels 2-6. If you want to look for yourself often times VHF/UHF/FM antennas are optimized for 2-62/69 which is what you want. Many Antenna Craft antennas are also 2-69 but as Radioshack was ordered to sell these are only available on closeout or stores which didn't happen to toss them.

You can say with all honesty to your wife because METV is on VHF the fancy compact antennas are not ideal. And lower the frequency means longer elements and the more frequencies means more elements. Something like the RCA751R is a nice compact antenna which does VHF-HI but not designed for VHF Low.

WJLP (METV) as stated IS currently on channel 3 VHF and from what I'm reading is fighting to stay there.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 9:21 PM   #8
37pro
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"You can say with all honesty to your wife because METV is on VHF the fancy compact antennas are not ideal. And lower the frequency means longer elements and the more frequencies means more elements. Something like the RCA751R is a nice compact antenna which does VHF-HI but not designed for VHF Low."
I am translating this into bigger is better. If this is what it takes then this is what I will do.
Would it benefit me to go to the HD8200U or is there a point that getting bigger will not help? (law of diminishing returns)
I think that the HD7084P that Tower Guy suggested is doable but once you are at 10' would 14' be any different.

Just incase it read that way I was not trying to be a wiseass just making a point that I had know idea the antennas got that big.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 9:36 PM   #9
Tower Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37pro View Post
I feel that a $60 to $70 is not a big deal and would rather have more antenna than just enough as long as the larger antenna does not hurt the situation.
If bigger is better why not go with the Winegaurd HD8200U?
Thanks again.
With digital there is no need to go bigger to get a better picture as long as the antenna is designed for Low VHF. That rules out the HD 1080. The antenna manufacturer's web site is simply wrong.

There's also no need for the huge 8200U. It's like the engineer who answered the half full/half empty glass dilemma by stating that the glass was twice as big as it needed to be.

In your case the cheaper Channel Master has plenty of gain and if you need more signal for multiple TV sets you can add a distribution amplifier.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 10:40 PM   #10
ADTech
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TG,

The CM Digital Advantage 45 (CM2016) is presented as a 7-up antenna, unless CM isn't telling the whole story. A better match would appear be the CM3016/8 or CM5016/8 if the OP wants 2-6.

There really aren't many choices in the moderate-sized all channel antenna segment. We liquidated our stock of those combos a couple of years ago because it was costing us more to warehouse them than we could ever make by selling them as we only sold a couple of hundred a year. Winegard only has their big ones left (8200 & 7084) and Antenna Craft died when Radio Shack went bankrupt. You might find some ACs if you're patient and call around but pickings will be very slim.
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Last edited by ADTech; 4-Dec-2015 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 4-Dec-2015, 11:37 PM   #11
MattZuke
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Originally Posted by 37pro View Post
I am translating this into bigger is better.
Not exactly.

You have the RCA751U. It measures 34.5 x 33.1 x 24.2. It doesn't have elements to pickup VHF-Low. It would have to be slightly longer and have wider elements to pickup VHF-Low. This wouldn't make the antenna better but it does make the antenna pickup more frequencies. This is why the compact antenna you cited isn't ideal for your situation. In simple terms it's not wide enough for channels 2-6 & FM.

You can say in all honesty to your wife that because you want METV the 3ft compact antenna isn't designed for low channels but the 5ft antenna is. And you'd be hard pressed to find a smaller antenna still on the market that does VHF low.

10FT is huge, really huge. I have a 10ft 7-13 VHF Antenna and in my case that was bought specifically because at the time the cost of this Radio Shack antenna was roughly equal to a distribution amp and in my case I have one UHF station. I honestly tried the smaller one but because trees and hills one station wouldn't come in.

http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital..._p/cm-3016.htm
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Old 5-Dec-2015, 1:11 AM   #12
MattZuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
TG,

The CM Digital Advantage 45 (CM2016) is presented as a 7-up antenna, unless CM isn't telling the whole story. A better match would appear be the CM3016/8 or CM5016/8 if the OP wants 2-6.
The suggested antenna is the CM Advantage 45 (CM3016), not the CM Digital Advantage (CM2016).

[This one]
http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital..._p/cm-3016.htm

[NOT this one]
http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital..._p/cm-2016.htm

It's easy to confuse the two. I know I did when looking it up for the first time.
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Old 5-Dec-2015, 4:42 AM   #13
ADTech
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Yep, that's exactly what I did! Thanks for pointing it out. I've always gone by their model numbers, never the marketing names.
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