Advice on setup (antenna, amplifier, splitter) needed to "cut cable"

[Mr_Aa]

Hi All experts,

Trying to cut the chains and break free of my long and dreaded cable bill. I have beers surfing around in the forum reading about the different options/suggestions provided by y'all and I was hoping I could be fortunate enough to also receive some guidance.

10 ft. report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2f9fd548e5e1

15 ft. Report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d24324c6492472

20 ft. report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243cd5b41e9e5

24 ft. report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2f0b8235ccdb


I was hoping to be able to receive the following channels; FOX, NBC, CBS, PBS & ABC

I have to install in the addict as I am renting. The antenna installation height will be between 18-24 ft. There are neighboring houses around which would potentially block me (their roof), but does seem like I might have struck a bit of luck as there is a 1 level house in my 180-195 direction, which my attic mount would clear over.
I would like to connect 4 TV's to it and cable run from antenna to my cable distribution point is about ~50 ft and from there to each TV probably another 50-75 ft.

So logical diagram would be:
Antenna --> 50 ft. RG-6 --> junction box with splitter (guess it would natural to place the splitter here) --> 4 x 50-75 ft. RG-6 --> 4 x TV

Questions:
- What antenna would you recommend (and since an attic install, would you recommend several antennas which would be more band specific)?
- would you recommend a system amplifier (and if so, where would I place it compared to splitter)
- Any particular splitter you would recommend that I use?
- Anything else you can recommend .

Thank you for your time and knowledge.

[tomfoolery]

No chance of using a chimney mount? Strapped on without drilling holes?

My DB4e in the attic is just about enough for my weakest signal, which is 5dB or so stronger than your strongest signal. And you want KERA (real 14) for PBS, which I don't think you'll get reliably from within an attic even with a DB8e or 91XG. For WFAA (real 8) for ABC, you'll also need a large high-VHF antenna, like the Y10-7-13. But in the attic, it's looking pretty iffy to me.

[Mr_Aa]

Never thought of that, that might work. Didn't know they existed. Where do I get that kind of band? Maybe I could also use a tripod or something in the yard, but that would likely only out me at 10 ft. by using a tripod or 20 ft with the chimney band.
With either of these solutions it would add probably 30-50 ft of extra coax to the first run down to where I had thought about putting a splitter. Would I the need anything else and what setup would you recommend?

Thanks,

+=>

As always , attics and the inside of buildings Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will Be a reception friendly environment.

Many houses in Texas have Metal Covered Insulation Panels in the attic.

Metal covered insulation panels do a great job of , obstructing , impeding , blocking , Tv reception.

And other obstructions.

And electric wiring noise and the wiring reflects Tv signals.

And electronic devices that generate noise in the attic.

--------If You Must Install a Antenna In The Attic.--------

Then install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

HD1200 , All Channel Antenna.

Aim the HD1200 All Channel Antenna at about 180 degree magnetic compass direction.

180 degree is South.

------------

Here is how to aim antennas.

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

To Assist Best Tv Reception , most Digital Tv's have Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

As always , Tv antenna aim and location can adjusted for best reception.

------------

----------->Test Reception Without A Antenna System Amplifier.<------------

Then can Test reception with a.

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

LNA-100 Boost , antenna system amplifier.

Most houses have a electric outlet / light in the attic , so as to plug in the amplifier.

------------

The Major Networks , NBC , CBS , ABC , PBS Networks , FOX , MyNetwork , and more should be received.

------------

The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , ATSC Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , often named the ~ Antenna Channels ~ ATSC Channels ~ DTV Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT Channel Scan for Cable Tv Channels.

[Mr_Aa]

Thank you Teleview,
If I'm able to get an antenna on the chimney (or maybe tripod), which one would you then recommend and would the additional coax run be an issue or ops ould I just compensate for this with an amplifier?

Thanks again for your help.

[Mr_Aa]

Oh and one last thing, if I am forced to go with an attic solution, would there be an advantage to using separate antennas for VHF & UHF like y10713 for VHF and MXU59 or U8000 for UHF and how would I combine the signals?

[GroundUrMast]

Separate antennas for UHF and VHF give you added flexibility when optimizing aim. In this case, I don't see a glaring need for such flexibility but it would not hurt your chances of reception.

If you opt to use separate antennas, you have several UHF/VHF combiner options to choose from...

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103923
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store..._combiner.html
http://www.3starinc.com/uvsj_uhf_vhf...or_joiner.html
http://picodigital.com/_docs/_data_s...EQ-2150_DS.pdf

In a an environment with weaker signals, one could consider using a preamp with separate inputs. I'd resist this option when faced with the number of strong signals shown in your report. An overloaded amplifier will reduce the number of reliably received channels.

[Mr_Aa]

Thanks GUM,
Talked to the owner and he was not really thrilled about the idea of me putting anything on the chimney, but he said that he couldn't prevent me from doing it by using one of those bands. He did say that he would do a 80/20 split (he paying 80) with me if I would choose to do an attic install and leave the antennas behind if I one day moved.
So in the interest of staying on good terms with my landlord (and get the financial incentive), I think I'll try the attic install first.
I kind of like the idea of doing a separate antenna for each frequency range, mostly due to size. But a couple of follow up questions;
- are there any requirements for spatial separation between VHF & UHF antennas?
- what is the difference between the different types of UHF antennas (i.e. Antenna craft MXU59 and U8000) and which type would you recommend in my situation?
- from reading quite a few posts, it seems like the Antenna Craft antenna's are often recommended, are they the best quality and deal or are there any other brands that are worth considering as well?

Thanks for your help in clearing up my mind and helping me along the way. I really appreciate the time and effort y'all give, to help all of us with a lot of questions.

[GroundUrMast]

The U8000 is a panel design, similar in shape to the CM-4228, DB8 and DB8E. The MXU antennas are relatively long in comparison. The MXU59 and U8000 have similar UHF gain and are designs that date back to the days when the UHF band spanned real channels 14 through 69. The DB8E is unique in that it is a newer design that concentrates it's performance to cover just real channels 14 through 51. As a result, it offers slightly better UHF performance than the older designs.

The Y10713 is a rather long antenna also. (I own one.) If you were mounting this on a mast, I would recommend placing the UHF antenna at least 3' above the Y10713. If you're in the attic, you'll likely not have the height to do so. If that's the case, mount them side by side (or at least so that one is not in front of the other) with at least 3' of separation... More is likely to be better.

[Mr_Aa]

Thanks GUM,

So here is what I'm thinking of doing:
UHF - Antenna Direct DB8e
VHF - Antenna Craft Y10713

VHF/UHF antennas --> VHF/UHF antenna combiner (if needed to a antenna system amplifier) --> 4-way splitter --> TV's 1-4

The shortest run from antenna to TV will be ~100 ft.
The longest run from antenna to TV will be ~125 ft.

Any objections or other recommendations before I open up the wallet?

Thanks for all of your help

[GroundUrMast]

You've spec'd a premium solution. The gain of those antennas is greater than some distribution amplifiers on the market. From what you've described, I anticipate no more than 16 dB total insertion loss at the highest frequency due to cable and splitter. At lower UHF and H-VHF frequencies the losses will be quite a bit less. If you have confirmed you have the space in your attic, or are willing to mount outdoors, this if 'plenty' of antenna. Their gain essentially negates all of you system losses.

[Mr_Aa]

Thank GUM,

Space confirmed, despite it being a little tight for the VHF antenna, but it should work. So I will leave the amplifier out.

I really appreciate your time and effort to help out.

[timgr]

I mostly lurk here, but I might have some useful suggestions for you.

It was mentioned above, but I would point out that both the DB8e and Y10713 are large antennas, and you will need lots of room in your attic to hold them, and even more room to aim them the direction that you want. If this is a stick-built building, the attic will be full of collar ties and struts that stiffen the roof and support the ceiling below. Since attics are not built for human habitation, there is not a lot of unimpeded open space, typically.

If the building was built with trusses, there will be even more struts in the way.

Before you sign off with your landlord, get your tape and start measuring the unimpeded space in the attic. IIRC the Y10713 has a 10 foot beam (the main beam is 10' long, and the other antenna elements sprout from that) and the DB8e is a 4'x4' panel. You could make a stick and cardboard mockup, take it in to your attic, and see if there is any way to position it optimally.

You could also grab a portable TV and extension cord, and move it around in your attic, to get an idea of the degree of shielding you must contend with. Measure everything you can. I'd also start with one of the two antennas (the DB8e) and see how your attic works out before committing to the very bulky Y10713. If the attic shields out UHF, I would bet that it shields out VHF at least as effectively.

[timgr]

Another thing I would point out - of the powerful local stations, only WFAA 8 ABC will not be picked up by your UHF-only DB8e. I have not looked at your station lineup in detail, but you may not care about picking up more VHF stations than ch. 8. For example, KHFW-LD appears to be an evangelism station, which you may not care about. So, it may be possible to pick up Ch. 8 with a smaller antenna than the Y10713 - or perhaps you could mount a small antenna like the HBU11 on your building's chimney, and put the DB8e in the attic. But I wonder if you will get just as many stations from the HBU11 on the roof as you will see from the bigger antennas in the attic.

[tomfoolery]

I haven't tried this, but if you'd like to start smaller, perhaps a DB4e could be tried, and a second added if more signal strength and/or more directionality is needed. The DB8e, from all appearances, is a pair of DB4e's with a combiner, and the gain is around 3dB higher across the spectrum over the DB4e, as would be expected with twice the antenna.

What I don't know is how practical it would be to do. It's not hard to make two short cables the same length, nor to add a splitter to combine them, but what I don't know is how effective it would be. If this is a foolish idea, I hope ADTech pops in and says as much.

Alternatively, you could buy the DB4e locally at a store that will allow you to return it for the DB8e if you don't get satisfactory results. But the experimenter in me would go for the factory antenna and DIY combining, just because.

Oh, and since Radio Shack sells (and owns) Antennacraft, perhaps try the Y5713 since it's smaller than the Y10713, as long as you can return it for the larger one at your local store (the elements are easy to fold back up, as long as you're careful to not break the locking mechanism, which you can do if you flex them too hard).

Mount them on wooden dowels hanging from rafters, clamped temporarily until the ideal location is found, then just run a couple of wood screws through them. No wind to deal with up there, so you don't need the robust installation of a roof or chimney mount.

[Mr_Aa]

Thanks timgr and tomfoolery,

Both good advice and I went up to the attic to measure again with broomstick/cardboard model and my compass and i have a couple of mounting options for the y10713, however I do like the advice about stopping by the local radioshack and ask them if I could try out the y5713 first and the return if not working.
The DB8e is not a big problem to install, most of the attic is made for standup height as we AC units up there and therefore a pretty high ceiling height up there, but it could be interesting (at least from a cost perspective to start with just the DB4e, I'll try to talk to them and hear if that is possible.

I really do appreciate y'all's feedback, it's good to get different options, points of view as well as tips and tricks. Keep it flowing if y'all have anything else

[ADTech]

Keep the antenna away from the HVAC equipment and metal duct work. If you have radiant barrier, forget the attic completely.

[Mr_Aa]

Ok, so I am confussed......I was discussing cutting the ties with cable with some of my neighbors here in the neighborhood, and one of them told me that he was using the mohu leaf : Mohu Leaf Paper Thin Indoor HDTV Antenna
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RPDP2Y..._TxOaub0CNA3P9
mounted in the attic. He did say that me had to "play around" with it to find the perfect spot, but he is able to get all the channels such as abc, cbs, nbc, and fox.

He did say he uses an amplifier, but how on earth is he able to use such as small antenna to receive all of the channels, from the attic, does that make sense at all?

[GroundUrMast]

The Leaf is a UHF only design. That does not mean that it wont receive some VHF signal... just that it was not optimized to do so. If the amplifier does not overload it can isolate the poor SWR match at VHF frequencies from the coax down-lead. That may or may not sound like a bunch of 'blah-blah-blah techno-speak', but my point is that I'm glad that your neighbor was able to make a Leaf work... Very easily, they could have had a much different result. It sounds like they had to work at finding a location that worked... which is often true for antennas that are a better match to the conditions.

A 'clean' outdoor installation can be expected to have the conditions predicted in your report, whereas the variability of attics, trees and other structures force us to do quite a bit of speculating. Given your desire to attic mount, I have to be very conservative when considering the size of antenna to suggest. If your attic is a poor location for reception even the large antennas you've spec'd may fail to produce reliable results. On the other hand, if your attic is one of the more reception friendly ones, the two large antennas will give you a great deal of margin (with no need for any accessory amplification). The large all channel antenna suggested by teleview would provide a better chance for reception of KSFW, a low power station that currently carries infomercials.

If you want to go with a smaller solution, in the attic, you increase your odds of problems with reception reliability. If you were spec'ing a system for outdoor mounting in a location free of obstructions such as tress and structures, I'd certainly lean toward a more compact solution.

+=>

You can do this.

Buy a Mohu and install it , move it around here and there and some where else.

Receive the most channels you can with the Mohu.

And at the same time install the HD1200 antenna and etc. that I have recommend.

Compare the number of channels received and the reliability of the channels received.

And compare with what the neighbor is receiving and the reliability of the neighbors reception.

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I can not recommend Mohu or any other indoor type antennas or other antennas that I know from years of experience and the ongoing reports of reception here at tvfool , will not provide the best reception When The Question Asker Can Install a Better Antenna.

If I were to flip out just any answer , then many people will come back on me saying I do not care. And I am an idiot.

And they would be correct.

So I do the best I can to provide the correct information.