Attic or Not

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

I am earnestly trying to cut the cable and at the same time trying to learn about the intricacies of OTA antennas and signal capture. This forum and signal emulation tools have been invaluable. Thanks for your help and expertise. My first attempt was to try a Winegard Flatwave amped Antenna Model FL5500A. I was hoping to be able to place the antenna on top of the built in cabinet that I have my TV in. This would have placed it around 10ft AGL. Reception was spotty at best. I tried moving it around the room looking for a better location. Reception was good as long as the Antenna was perfectly aligned and in a narrow area of the living room, less than perfect results. I am wondering what your opinion would be concerning locating an antenna in the Attic. I have limited room (hip roof), but am loathe to put up a mast. Thanks again for your help.
Here is the link to my report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134743d304345
I have a single layer of asphalt shingles over 1 x lathe.

[Stereocraig]

There are very few guarantees when mounting an antenna on the roof and hiding it in the attic, will reduce that by about half. Maybe even more, depending on building materials, duct work, etc. Even worse, in the rain and snow.

Sort of like those goofy looking tinted covers that some people put on their vehicle running lights.

Give it a try and see what happens.
You have stations in multiple directions, so unless you are willing to settle for stations in a single direction, you will need to consider further options.

[rickbb]

Any physical object between the antenna and the transmitter will affect your signal.

More objects more issues. Generally the best place would be on a mast at highest point on your roof away from trees and buildings between the antenna and transmitter(s).

The more you get from that, the more issues you run into with placement.

(There are weird exceptions that involve signal reflections, etc. but they are not the normal.)

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Thanks for the replies. I realize that an antenna in the attic is risky, but I was hoping to be able to make an educated decision based on the experience and wisdom of guys who've been there. Is there an antenna combination that I should try in the attic that if unsuccessful can be successfully relocated to a mast? Would a pre amp like the CM7777 be helpful? Has anyone successfully paired 2 DB4's in order to pick up signals from opposing antenna's without using a rotor?
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...c2-250x250.jpg

Thanks again

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Has anyone successfully paired 2 DB4's in order to pick up signals from opposing antenna's without using a rotor?

I think I found the answer to this one in other posts here on the forum... not likely

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Any thoughts on the Clearstream 2V?

[Stereocraig]

An alternative to a rotor, would be an A-B switch.
Both of these, would require a tuner that is capable of "Adding" channels, VS a complete rescan.
W/ a rescan, you would lose any channels that were previously found from the other direction.

[ADTech]

Which stations, other than those in a generally northerly direction, are on your "must have" list? Which are on the "like to have but not too important" list?

What are the surroundings outside your attic like? Can you achieve relatively unobstructed views in the requisite signal path(s)? The online/interactive tool is very useful in helping you visualize this. Switch to the satellite view, turn on the lines, then zoom/pan and drag and drop the balloon onto your rooftop. If the display switches to an oblique view, turn it off (the 45° control is under the "Satellite" control). Now, you can see the various signal paths overlaid on a view of your roof, and, by adjusting the zoom level, your surroundings including trees and buildings that were visible whenever that aerial view was captured.

I found your thread's title to be ironic as I use almost the exact same thing as the title of a tech tip I wrote a while back. I've attached it to this thread, you will likely find it to be enlightening.

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Which stations, other than those in a generally northerly direction, are on your "must have" list? Which are on the "like to have but not too important" list?.

We would like to reliably receive channels 25.x, 49.x, 66.x, 12.x, 46.x, 4.x, 40.x, and 5.x

Anything beyond that we would consider a bonus.

What are the surroundings outside your attic like? Can you achieve relatively unobstructed views in the requisite signal path(s)?

The satellite view pretty much shows obstructions every way we look (mainly trees). I'm not sure how clear the path has to be in order to compensate with a stronger antenna, but we live on 2 acre lot with trees blocking a clear path to the transmitters within 40 ft. in all directions except for eastward.(not good)

These trees are pretty mature and probably well over 30ft tall.

The "Flatwave" antenna picked up the stations that we wanted when placed in a specific area of our living room, but wasn't usable because of limited mounting options.

Is the reason that the Flatwave worked because of the fact its winter (no leaves)?

Is there hope for any antenna combination?

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by Frustrated Cable Cutter

We would like to reliably receive channels 25.x, 49.x, 66.x, 12.x, 46.x, 4.x, 40.x, and 5.x

Anything beyond that we would consider a bonus.



The satellite view pretty much shows obstructions every way we look (mainly trees). I'm not sure how clear the path has to be in order to compensate with a stronger antenna, but we live on 2 acre lot with trees blocking a clear path to the transmitters within 40 ft. in all directions except for eastward.(not good)

These trees are pretty mature and probably well over 30ft tall.

The "Flatwave" antenna picked up the stations that we wanted when placed in a specific area of our living room, but wasn't usable because of limited mounting options.

Is the reason that the Flatwave worked because of the fact its winter (no leaves)?

Is there hope for any antenna combination?

I don't really see any issues with being able to pick up those stations except for WDIV NBC 45(4.1). You're saying you got that channel with a flatwave in your living room?
What's wrong with the NBC station next to you?

To get a chance at that channel I doubt the C2V is going to be good enough. I had a similar channel I needed and the C2V wasn't strong enough outside going through a couple trees as well. I ended up with a C4V and its working great. An AD Juice preamp helped (xtra 10% signal) as well but I had a good signal without it but again, I'm on the roof. I think you have a good shot in the attic as long as you don't have metal objects in front of it and aim it at 143 magnetic. But be prepared to move it to the roof.

[rabbit73]

We would like to reliably receive channels 25.x, 49.x, 66.x, 12.x, 46.x, 4.x, 40.x, and 5.x

25.x, WEYI NBC & CW, NM 56.3 dB, 22 degrees
49.x, WAQP Ind, NM 54.8 dB, 329 degrees
66.x, WSMH Fox, NM 53.4 dB, 327 degrees
12.x, WJRT ABC, NM 41.4 dB, 330 degrees
46.x, WBSF CW & NBC, NM 35.3 dB, 1 degree
4.x, WDIV NBC, NM 6.3 dB, 136 degrees; you don't need that, you already have 2 NBCs
40.x, ? I don't see that; what is the callsign?
5.x, WNEM CBS, NM 32.2 dB, 1 degree

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=
click on callsign to see networks

Is the reason that the Flatwave worked because of the fact its winter (no leaves)?

That often helps. It also has a built in preamp. A preamp can make it possible to receive channels that are 5 dB weaker.



Try the C2V in a temporary setup in the attic in several locations with the antenna aimed about 350 degrees true, 357 magnetic. If that doesn't work, add a preamp like the Antenna Direct Juice or Channel Master 7778. The 7777 would probably be overloaded.

If that doesn't work, you will have to go outside and higher.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

25.x, WEYI NBC & CW, NM 56.3 dB, 22 degrees
49.x, WAQP Ind, NM 54.8 dB, 329 degrees
66.x, WSMH Fox, NM 53.4 dB, 327 degrees
12.x, WJRT ABC, NM 41.4 dB, 330 degrees
46.x, WBSF CW & NBC, NM 35.3 dB, 1 degree
4.x, WDIV NBC, NM 6.3 dB, 136 degrees; you don't need that, you already have 2 NBCs
40.x, ? I don't see that; what is the callsign?
5.x, WNEM CBS, NM 32.2 dB, 1 degree

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=
click on callsign to see networks

That often helps.



Try the C2V in a temporary setup in the attic in several locations with the antenna aimed about 350 degrees true, 357 magnetic. If that doesn't work, add a preamp like the Antenna Direct Juice or Channel Master 7778. The 7777 would probably be overloaded.

If that doesn't work, you will have to go outside and higher.

WLMB 40.X is not going to happen. He won't get 4.x with a C2V. If it's a must I still stand by my choice of the c4v with the vhf add on at best buy. A db4e would be another good choice but he'll need to add a vhf antenna also.

[rabbit73]

WLMB 40.X is not going to happen.

I agree; it's NM of -19.5 dB is below the thermal noise floor (NM -15 dB) and it is a VHF-Low channel. But, there is another virtual channel 40 which you can see on the rabbitears.info listing. He didn't give the callsign, so we don't really know what channel he means.
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=

He won't get 4.x with a C2V.

He doesn't need it, he already has two NBCs, and it's in another direction.

This is what your FM signals look like. They probably are not strong enough to interfere with TV reception. The Juice preamp doesn't have an FM filter, but it does have a 4G LTE filter to reject cellular interference that is moving into channels above 51. The 7778 does have an FM filter.

http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/d...4/Radar-FM.png

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

I agree; it's NM of -19.5 dB is below the thermal noise floor (NM -15 dB) and it is a VHF-Low channel. But, there is another virtual channel 40 which you can see on the rabbitears.info listing. He didn't give the callsign, so we don't really know what channel he means.
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=

He doesn't need it, he already has two NBCs, and it's in another direction.

Hmmm.... WKAR and WLPC share the same frequency... Seems odd

I'm assuming he wants that channel for a reason... But I do agree with you.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by shoman94

Hmmm.... WKAR and WLPC share the same frequency... Seems odd

The stations are about 90 miles apart and cover different markets:
WKAR is in East Lansing with a directional signal that avoids Detroit.
WLPC in Detroit is a low power station with a limited coverage area.

We will probably see more channel arrangements like this over the next few years with the FCC's repacking of the TV broadcast spectrum.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by Tim

The stations are about 90 miles apart and cover different markets:
WKAR is in East Lansing with a directional signal that avoids Detroit.
WLPC in Detroit is a low power station with a limited coverage area.

We will probably see more channel arrangements like this over the next few years with the FCC's repacking of the TV broadcast spectrum.

Hopefully it won't create problems.

[Frustrated Cable Cutter]

Channel 4.x has local news for the area where I work. If I can't get it (even with heroic measures) it's not a show stopper.

Just to make sure I'm clear on your recommendations, which antenna is the most conservative (has the best chance of being successful).

The c2v, c4v, or db4e?

Would it hurt if I went ahead and put the pre amp in whether I need it or not?

Which vhf antenna should I get?

Thanks again for your help.

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by Frustrated Cable Cutter

Channel 4.x has local news for the area where I work. If I can't get it (even with heroic measures) it's not a show stopper.

Just to make sure I'm clear on your recommendations, which antenna is the most conservative (has the best chance of being successful).

The c2v, c4v, or db4e?

Would it hurt if I went ahead and put the pre amp in whether I need it or not?

Which vhf antenna should I get?

Thanks again for your help.

You only have one channel that is VHF but I think a UHF only antenna will still give you channel 12 (WJRT). Worth a shot before purchasing the add on VHF antenna. If you want channel 45 (WDIV) then I'd go with the DB4E and aim it at 143 MAG. This antenna has a bit more gain on channels above channel 24. The stations on the backside of the antenna aimed at 143 should be strong enough to be picked up on the backside. Depending on you cable length you might need a pre amp. I'd try without first. I ended up getting the best reliable signal for my situation with only a powered distribution splitter since I'm going to multiple TVs.

I think that is your best chance at getting all the channels you want between the 3 antennas.
If you have a BestBuy local to you, you could always try the other 2 first since they have a good return policy.

[rabbit73]

Try the C2V in a temporary setup in the attic in several locations with the antenna aimed about 350 degrees true, 357 magnetic. Add a DB4e with preamp aimed at 4.1. Use an A/B switch to select which antenna needed. An alternative would be to connect the C2V to the TV antenna input and connect the DB4e to a separate tuner that connects to the TV aux input. Another alternative would be to combine both antennas with a custom Tin Lee AC7 combiner for NBC real channel 45.
http://www.tinlee.com/PDF/AC7-custom...kup%20Info.pdf

[shoman94]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

Try the C2V in a temporary setup in the attic in several locations with the antenna aimed about 350 degrees true, 357 magnetic. Add a DB4e with preamp aimed at 4.1. Use an A/B switch to select which antenna needed. An alternative would be to connect the C2V to the TV antenna input and connect the DB4e to a separate tuner that connects to the TV aux input. Another alternative would be to combine both antennas with a custom Tin Lee AC7 combiner for NBC real channel 45.
http://www.tinlee.com/PDF/AC7-custom...kup%20Info.pdf

Don't you think that the channels are strong enough to pick up on the back side? I'm picking up channels half his channels strengths on the backside of my C4V. Using A/B and multiple tuners just seem over the top for his report IMO.