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Old 2-Dec-2017, 5:18 PM   #61
blackstone
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Thanks, rabbit73.

I do not need Youngstown.

I do need WWCP 8 because 8.1 is the only semi-reliable ABC affiliate.
If I could solve WTAE then WWCP doesn't matter.

WJAC would be nice to have because of 6.3 Comet but I could live without it.
I will try the Polaroid to see if I can capture it/them.

I'm not trying to get all stations; just the ones that I think I should get.

Before getting the new DB8e, I got all of those stations, sometimes, except for WTAE which I never got and WPNT which I used to get but can't get at all now
None were reliable 365 days reception except KDKA, though.

Just got off the phone with Antenna Direct (I call then almost every day )
This is the second time I have talked to this particular rep.

She insists that my metal roof could, possibly, be causing me problems.
I am going to move the DB8e tomorrow to a wooden light pole 25' away.
If that doesn't help, then add a preamp.

Also mount the Polaroid for WJAC.
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Old 2-Dec-2017, 7:18 PM   #62
rabbit73
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Your report indicates you should be able to get WTAE 51 with your CM antenna and a preamp. It is listed a being much stronger than WWCP. RabbitEars.info lists it as being stronger than KDKA at 25 feet:



but the coverage is very spotty in your area because of the rough terrain:



Have you tried to get WWCP by aiming your CM antenna at 158 degrees with a preamp?

If you want to keep your CM antenna aimed at Pittsburgh for UHF and VHF with a preamp, you can try this inexpensive VHF antenna aimed at 158 with a preamp for WWCP:
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...vhf/dp/71Y5462
Attached Images
File Type: jpg blackstoneTVFreReport25.JPG (164.2 KB, 169 views)
File Type: jpg blackstoneTVFcovWTAE51fcc.JPG (118.4 KB, 172 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 2-Dec-2017 at 7:41 PM.
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Old 2-Dec-2017, 9:34 PM   #63
blackstone
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I get WWCP with my CM antenna aimed at 215 m/l.
Sometimes pretty good and sometimes not at all.

WTAE is an anomaly for me.
I was never able to get it with my CM but have gotten it a couple times since fooling with the DB8e.

When you look at the terrain coverage map just above, I am right by the bottom of the the "LL" in Hill.

I picked up a cheap RCA preamp today for my testing tomorrow.
If it looks like it improves that signal, I can return it and get a good one.
Also some stuff to mount the Polaroid and move the DB8e to my light pole.

That antenna looks pretty good.
If the Polaroid doesn't work out I may get this one.
Be nice if it had UHF too because I'd try to get WJAC with it too.
They're not far apart.
Under 20 degrees.

I'll report back tomorrow after changes and testing
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Old 3-Dec-2017, 2:50 AM   #64
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It is possible to buy a UHF/VHF combo antenna for the SE like your CM antenna, but it would be expensive.
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Old 3-Dec-2017, 3:03 AM   #65
blackstone
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I've been looking.
I'll try my Polaroid tomorrow aimed as precise as I can get it and see if I may get WWCP too.
Tonight, am trying to watch Clemson/Miami on 8.1 ABC and it went bad a couple times but came back in after rescanning.

I saw this one on Antennas Direct
And some on Amazon
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Old 3-Dec-2017, 11:16 PM   #66
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Well, here's what happened today.
First, I hooked the Polaroid up and pointed towards Johnstown; approx. 150 deg.
Picked up WJAC (UHF) but not WWCP (VHF).
Disconnected and moved to the DB8e.

And that's where the challenge continues.
I have no idea what precise direction that thing is aimed.
I don't know how to take a reading on it..
But, these are guesstimates.
Right now, I might be at@210 magnetic

Anyhow, I took it off the metal roof and put it on a wood light pole.

Right now, it's 10' up to the center bar.
I had some mixed results with just the antenna.
Then, I tried the RCA preamp.
I got nothing at all with it.

Disconnected it and did a little more adjusting.
The last location I got 29 UHF channels with the coax hooked directly from the antenna to my CM amp/splitter.

However, when I hooked UHF and VHF back up to a splitter, that dropped to 5.
I am waiting for a combiner to come Tuesday.

Some of those stations are weak, but ok to watch and others were terribly pixelated and not able to be watched..

For the first time, my TV attempted to get WPNT. It couldn't be watched but it showed up on the screen.

Seems like the splitter I'm trying to use as a combiner doesn't work for UHF.
It has no affect on my VHF stations.

This particular pre amp seemed to not work.
There were no instructions but I hooked the antenna to the UHF/Combined port.
There was a switch that I left on.
The other choices were FM Trap and Off.
I don't know what to make of that.

I think I'm going to leave it until my combiner comes on Tuesday
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 12:09 AM   #67
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Quote:
First, I hooked the Polaroid up and pointed towards Johnstown; approx. 150 deg.
Picked up WJAC (UHF) but not WWCP (VHF).
That is to be expected. The Polaroid isn't very good for VHF.
Quote:
Anyhow, I took it (DB8e) off the metal roof and put it on a wood light pole.
Right now, it's 10' up to the center bar.
I had some mixed results with just the antenna.
Then, I tried the RCA preamp.
I got nothing at all with it.
You changed two things at once, so you can't be sure which one caused that result. You moved the antenna AND you added the preamp.

Is the preamp the RCA TVPRAMP1R?

I am using one with my indoor antenna and it works OK. It is inexpensive, but that model has a history of quality control problems. One of the problems is with the power supply. Amazon is selling it as a warehouse special, which is returns that they are reselling, but they are not testing them; the power supply is often dead.

Another problem is with the combined/separate switch. It usually works OK in the combined position, but if the switch is moved to the separate position for separate UHF and VHF antennas, it doesn't always make good contact with the VHF antenna.
Quote:
This particular pre amp seemed to not work.
There were no instructions but I hooked the antenna to the UHF/Combined port.
There was a switch that I left on.
The other choices were FM Trap and Off.
I don't know what to make of that.
You should have received instructions with it.
http://www.rcaantennas.net/docs/comm...PRAMP1R_OM.pdf
Troubleshooting:
https://voxxintl.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...-Pre-Amplifier
Quote:
However, when I hooked UHF and VHF back up to a splitter, that dropped to 5.
I am waiting for a combiner to come Tuesday.
Quote:
Seems like the splitter I'm trying to use as a combiner doesn't work for UHF.
It has no affect on my VHF stations.
I don't quite understand what you did. If you connected a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna to a splitter to combine them, that is the wrong device to combine a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna. Tell me about the splitter.
Quote:
I am waiting for a combiner to come Tuesday.
What combiner did you order?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Dec-2017 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 1:26 AM   #68
blackstone
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Quote:
You changed two things at once, so you can't be sure which one caused that result. You moved the antenna AND you added the preamp.
I may have been unclear.

I added the preamp only after testing without it.
It was this one

It looks like the box may have been opened.
Perhaps, that is where the instructions went.
I'll check out the link.

Quote:
it doesn't always make good contact with the VHF antenna.
I didn't connect to the VHF.
Just the UHF.

This is the one I have coming Tuesday

I have a real one sitting too high up to reach on my VHF antenna.


The present splitter is similar to this

Quote:
I don't quite understand what you did. If you connected a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna to a splitter to combine them, that is the wrong device to combine a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna.
I needed a way to combine my VHF and UHF into my CM amp.
I had read that these splitters, sometimes, work.
They didn't for me.

It's all I could get in my small town.
Last Friday I, also, went to the next town 30 miles away looking for something.
Tried Lowes, Home Depot, Target, Walmart and some smaller places.
Too bad Radio Shack's not around anymore.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 2:16 AM   #69
rabbit73
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Quote:
I needed a way to combine my VHF and UHF into my CM amp.
I had read that these splitters, sometimes, work.
They didn't for me.
Both of those devices are wrong for combining a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna for the CM amp (which you didn't tell me the model). You need a UHF VHF Separator Joiner, UVSJ, AKA Diplexer.



https://www.radioshack.com/products/...itter-combiner



https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...Combiners.html
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File Type: jpg ADEU385CS-1SfrontS.jpg (111.4 KB, 820 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Dec-2017 at 2:48 AM.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 2:31 AM   #70
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Way back in the beginning of this thread:
Quote:
The amp is a Channel Master CM3414 4-Port Distribution Amplifier for Cable and Antenna Signal.
Quote:
Both of those devices are wrong for combining a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna for the CM amp
I figured they probably were but it was the only shot I had
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 2:33 AM   #71
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I have one of those combiners too high to reach on my VHF mast.

How would I combine 3 leads to one output?
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 2:38 AM   #72
blackstone
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I'm guessing this won't work?

Would this work for 3 leads if I use a 3rd antenna?

Last edited by blackstone; 4-Dec-2017 at 2:46 AM.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 2:50 AM   #73
rabbit73
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The 3414 is a good distribution amp.

Probably not.

Quote:
How would I combine 3 leads to one output?
Which 3 leads; please be more specific.

Combining two antennas with a splitter in reverse if iffy; combining 3 is even more iffy.

Combining a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna with a UVSJ works OK.

Combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions with a splitter in reverse doesn't always work.

Combining a UHF/VHF antenna like your CM aimed in one direction with a UHF antenna aimed in a different direction with a splitter in reverse doesn't always work.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Dec-2017 at 3:01 AM.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 2:58 AM   #74
blackstone
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The CM VHF, my DB8e UHF and a possible UHF/VHF for the south east.
WJAC and WWCP

BTW, thank you for your continued patient help
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 3:10 AM   #75
rabbit73
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Quote:
BTW, thank you for your continued patient help
Thank you for understanding. I'm trying to give you accurate advice.

Your CM antenna is for UHF and VHF. It should be OK for UHF and VHF from the SW with a preamp; isn't t?

I understand that you want UHF and VHF from two directions, the SW and SE, but using a splitter in reverse probably will not work for you.

Forum member bobsgarage lives between Chicago and Milwaukee. He wanted both direction, but I told him to be happy with just one direction because combining doesn't always work. He tried it and lost some channels. He ended up with two separate systems.



Bobsgarage lives north of Chicago, and has two antenna systems on two separate masts; one UHF/VHF system facing north to Milwaukee, and one facing south to Chicago. (In the photo, they are both aimed in about the same direction.) He wanted so many channels, he found it impossible to combine them without losing some. He is using separate tuners.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Dec-2017 at 3:24 AM.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 3:21 AM   #76
blackstone
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My CM antenna works great for VHF from the southwest without preamplification.

I'm looking at improving reception from the south east.
WJAC and WWCP

If I could reliably pick up WTAE on my DB8e, I would have no need for WWCP 8.
I may then be able to use the Polaroid for WJAC if I could combine it with my CM and DB8e
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 3:32 AM   #77
rabbit73
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The best solution I can think of for you if you want both directions for UHF and VHF to 3 TVs, is UHF and VHF antennas for both directions (or a UHF/VHF combo antenna for each direction) with a preamp for each direction, and two coax lines to each TV.

One coax line will go to the TV antenna input, and the other coax line for the other direction will go to a separate tuner with its output going to the aux input of the TV.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 3:38 AM   #78
rabbit73
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Quote:
My CM antenna works great for VHF from the southwest without preamplification.
That's nice, but can it do UHF and VHF with a preamp?
Quote:
If I could reliably pick up WTAE on my DB8e, I would have no need for WWCP 8.
If your report is correct, you shouldn't be having trouble getting WTAE, even with the CM antenna and a preamp.

One disadvantage of the DB8e is that it has a narrow beamwidth that might not be able to cover all your SW channels.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Dec-2017 at 3:54 AM.
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 4:28 AM   #79
blackstone
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I removed the UHF from my CM to add it to the DB8e.
That wasn't my original intention, though.

Antennas Direct recommended the DB8e when I called them. (Had a 25% off coupon which was my impetus.)

Only after ordering did I learn the DB8e didn't work with VHF.
They recommended I keep my CM for VHF.

The CM, usually, picks up WWCP 8 even though it's pointed SW.
Sometimes it doesn't.

The DB8e has picked up WJAC even though it's pointed SW, too.
Neither station comes in 100% reliably, though.

I've never tried a preamp on the CM because it seems to pick up VHF well.
Because of size, weight, etc. the CM will not get any further attention.
It's too high to reach and too cumbersome to get down and put back up.

I will give the preamp another try tomorrow.
I may not have had the switches set correctly.

Quote:
The best solution I can think of for you if you want both directions for UHF and VHF to 3 TVs, is UHF and VHF antennas for both directions (or a UHF/VHF combo antenna for each direction) with a preamp for each direction, and two coax lines to each TV.

One coax line will go to the TV antenna input, and the other coax line for the other direction will go to a separate tuner with its output going to the aux input of the TV.
Would a separate tuner be needed for each TV?
Only 2 TVs would be interested in this setup
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Old 4-Dec-2017, 1:52 PM   #80
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Here is the status as of 8:30 am 12/4/17

The DB8e is hooked directly to the CM3414 amp.
No preamp.
Antenna is 10' off ground.

Best guess approximation of bearing is 218 Magnetic
VHF CM not connected
39 stations on scan.

If this holds I would be extremely happy

Here's what they are with virtual channels and signal strength:
2 KDKA Good
3 WPSU Weak (That's a weird one. Must be picking it off the back of the antenna)
4 WTAE Normal
6 WJAC Good
8 WWCP Weak (VHF)
11 WPXI Normal
16 ION Good
19 WPCW Normal
21 WFMJ Weak
22 WPNT Weak
27 WKBN Weak
40 WPCB Weak
53 WPGH Good

I will try the RCA preamp again with all other conditions the same
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