inconsistent reception of local Fox - Page 2

mulliganman · 29-Jan-2014, 11:00 PM

Might either one of these be an improvement given my situation for Fox:

http://www.channelmasterstore.com/TV..._p/cm-7777.htm

http://www.channelmasterstore.com/TV..._p/cm-7778.htm

mulliganman · 30-Jan-2014, 5:48 PM

Please ignore my previous post about the preamplifiers. So, the installer/handyman came out today to work on my system. I chose the Antennas Direct 91XG and we mounted on a satellite dish mount pointed toward 350 degrees. We saw some improvement but not huge. I discovered the Wineguard HDP269 amp was completely installed in the attic and not on the small directional antenna that was trying to pull in Fox so as we were taking it off to put on the 91XG the signal got significantly stronger so no preamp is connected now. Right now, my signal strength of Fox is peaking at 78-79 percent. So, that is significant improvement (that is even on a rather windy day). I also have identified the mysterious antenna that was up before: http://digitenna.com/ The 91XG was strong enough to pull in signals from Fordland but KYTV/NBC signal fluctuated quite a bit when it was not coming from the C2V.

I left the Skywalker amp alone because I wasn't sure what to do. I saw a huge dip in signal strength when we disconnected it. ADTech, do you think I should leave it alone or should I replace it with the Channel Master CM-3410?

I am also wondering should I still order the AC-7 custom combiner for Fox KRBK Channel 49. Could you please advise ADTech? Thanks you so much for your help so far!!!!

mulliganman · 31-Jan-2014, 2:21 AM

I guess I am just asking if should still purchase the A7 customer combiner based on the results and if I should leave the Skywalker amp alone or replace it with the Channel Master CM3410? Thanks again so much for your help. Things would not have gone well today if not for your input and advice.

ADTech · 31-Jan-2014, 11:45 AM

If you have the CM3410, then change it out. It can only help. Might not make a difference, but the only way to know is to try it.

Have you tried merging the 91XG with the C2V using a reversed splitter? If that is successful while causing no ill effects (lost channels, etc), then the AC7 combiner won't be needed. If combining the antennas with the reversed splitter does cause problems, then the AC7 is definitely called for.

mulliganman · 1-Feb-2014, 1:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

If you have the CM3410, then change it out. It can only help. Might not make a difference, but the only way to know is to try it.

Have you tried merging the 91XG with the C2V using a reversed splitter? If that is successful while causing no ill effects (lost channels, etc), then the AC7 combiner won't be needed. If combining the antennas with the reversed splitter does cause problems, then the AC7 is definitely called for.

I tried the CM3410 and didn't see much difference. Fox KRBK would bump up to 80 percent signal strength for a brief moment before returning to 79 percent. On the Skywalker Fox will dip to 77 percent for a bit before bumping back up to 79 percent. I'm kind of surprised by this.

I'm not real familiar with what a custom combiner is. Is it just to reduce interference? Anything I need to know about installing it when it comes in? Thanks again.

mulliganman · 1-Feb-2014, 9:50 PM

Previous issues posted today resolved.

mulliganman · 3-Feb-2014, 9:09 PM

O.K. I am hoping someone here can explain something to me. I just got off the phone with the Tinlee company and they acted like that I don't need an AC7 combiner if I am getting a good picture now. Is that something you only use if you are having picture trouble? The tech I spoke with didn't seem to understand why I would want one if I am able to Fox KRBK and my other local channels on my TV sets as is. I just want to make sure I understand because if it is something I need to help maintain/keep the stronger signal I am now receiving I want to make sure and get it.

ADTech · 3-Feb-2014, 10:28 PM

You will need to identify the specific configuration you have connected. You've mentioned several different amps but you've not defined the current configuration for status updates so, without specifics, advice may be based on assumptions from prior statements.

Individual antenna tests, not combined, assuming no amplifier installed:

1) Does the C2V reliably pick up everything except WRBK?

2) Does the 91X reliably pick up WRBK (ignore all other channels)?

If the answer to both #1 and # 2 is "Yes", then combine the antennas using the reversed splitter and re-evaluate reception for ALL received channels.

Are all channels reliable now?

If "yes", you are done.

If "no" and the 'problem' channel was previously reliable with the individual antenna, you need the AC7 combiner.

mulliganman · 4-Feb-2014, 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

You will need to identify the specific configuration you have connected. You've mentioned several different amps but you've not defined the current configuration for status updates so, without specifics, advice may be based on assumptions from prior statements.

Individual antenna tests, not combined, assuming no amplifier installed:

1) Does the C2V reliably pick up everything except WRBK?

2) Does the 91X reliably pick up WRBK (ignore all other channels)?

If the answer to both #1 and # 2 is "Yes", then combine the antennas using the reversed splitter and re-evaluate reception for ALL received channels.

Are all channels reliable now?

If "yes", you are done.

If "no" and the 'problem' channel was previously reliable with the individual antenna, you need the AC7 combiner.

I am sorry if you interpreted my response the wrong way. I am simply trying to understand. From what I can tell a splitter is being used to combine the signals, then goes into the distribution amp, and another splitter is being used to send the signal to three televisions.

I can confidently say the answer to question 1 and 2 is yes. Signals are good on the channels. Fox KRBK remains the weakest but has been consistent at 79 to 82 percent signal strength since eliminating the Wineguard preamp and changing to the 91XG antenna.

What I need further clarification on is regarding the reversed splitter/AC 7 combiner. Is this "reversed spitter" a special splitter that needs to be purchased? I am not familiar with the term. I am also unclear how using a reversed splitter or an AC7 combiner helps with my reception/why it is needed. If you could explain, I would appreciate it.

ADTech · 4-Feb-2014, 11:45 PM

No, it's just that I had lost track of what the now-current configuration might be.

A "standard" splitter, when installed "backwards" becomes a non-selective combiner. That's what's referred to as a "reversed splitter". The "problem" with using them this way is that signals from each antenna can mix together in there and can cancel each other out as well as contributing to additional signal loss.

The frequency selective combiner such as Tinlee's AC7 has been designed so that one of the inputs accepts all channels except one while the other input only passes the signals for a single channel while rejecting all the rest. The result is a very clean, low-loss combination or "merging" of a single channel's signal with the signals from a broad spectrum antenna without any phase cancellation.

The absolute value of the signal meter reading isn't really important as long as reception is reliable and is free from breakups.

Can you look at the device that is merging the two antennas and identify it?

mulliganman · 6-Feb-2014, 1:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

No, it's just that I had lost track of what the now-current configuration might be.

A "standard" splitter, when installed "backwards" becomes a non-selective combiner. That's what's referred to as a "reversed splitter". The "problem" with using them this way is that signals from each antenna can mix together in there and can cancel each other out as well as contributing to additional signal loss.

The frequency selective combiner such as Tinlee's AC7 has been designed so that one of the inputs accepts all channels except one while the other input only passes the signals for a single channel while rejecting all the rest. The result is a very clean, low-loss combination or "merging" of a single channel's signal with the signals from a broad spectrum antenna without any phase cancellation.

The absolute value of the signal meter reading isn't really important as long as reception is reliable and is free from breakups.

Can you look at the device that is merging the two antennas and identify it?

The cable from both antennas are being merged by a Holland HFS-2D splitter, then into the distribution amp, and then into a Holland 3 way splitter to split the signal to three televisions.

mulliganman · 1-Mar-2014, 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

No, it's just that I had lost track of what the now-current configuration might be.

A "standard" splitter, when installed "backwards" becomes a non-selective combiner. That's what's referred to as a "reversed splitter". The "problem" with using them this way is that signals from each antenna can mix together in there and can cancel each other out as well as contributing to additional signal loss.

The frequency selective combiner such as Tinlee's AC7 has been designed so that one of the inputs accepts all channels except one while the other input only passes the signals for a single channel while rejecting all the rest. The result is a very clean, low-loss combination or "merging" of a single channel's signal with the signals from a broad spectrum antenna without any phase cancellation.

The absolute value of the signal meter reading isn't really important as long as reception is reliable and is free from breakups.

Can you look at the device that is merging the two antennas and identify it?

I know it has been a while but would "phase cancellation" look like a channel from one antenna dropping from an extremely strong signal to no signal every so often? I have a station that is doing that to me know. But, I am not utilizing a reversed splitter or the AC7 combiner.

mulliganman · 10-Mar-2014, 7:26 PM

Let me clarify. I have a Clearstream 2V aimed at approximately 50 degrees. I have an Antennas Direct 91XG aimed at 349 degrees (this antenna is picking up Fox KRBK). The signals are being combined using a regular Holland splitter, sent to the Channel Master 3410 distribution amp then splitting the signal to 3 TV's. What I have been noticing since adding the 91XG is a couple of channels are experiencing signal dropouts/pixelation that weren't doing so prior to adding that antenna. I would like to know if this is "phase cancellation" that has been referred to by ADTech and that the AC7 combinber is the solution to this issue before ordering.

Tower Guy · 10-Mar-2014, 8:50 PM

Replace the splitter with a UVSJ joiner.

ADTech · 10-Mar-2014, 9:19 PM

The UVSJ isn't the right tool for this application. He's trying to merge a UHF 49 (KRBK) signal from the 91XG with a VHF 10 through UHF 44 signal group (everything else).

Quote:

I would like to know if this is "phase cancellation" that has been referred to by ADTech and that the AC7 combinber is the solution to this issue before ordering.

It's likely that signals from the 91XG are interfering with the signals from the C2V. Until you go back and read post #28 and answer the questions posed there as accurately as possible, you will not have your best odds of understanding what you need. Otherwise, its mostly an educated guess or estimate.

Tower Guy · 10-Mar-2014, 11:16 PM

Thanks ADTech; My advice was too hasty.

mulliganman · 11-Mar-2014, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

You will need to identify the specific configuration you have connected. You've mentioned several different amps but you've not defined the current configuration for status updates so, without specifics, advice may be based on assumptions from prior statements.

Individual antenna tests, not combined, assuming no amplifier installed:

1) Does the C2V reliably pick up everything except WRBK?

2) Does the 91X reliably pick up WRBK (ignore all other channels)?

If the answer to both #1 and # 2 is "Yes", then combine the antennas using the reversed splitter and re-evaluate reception for ALL received channels.

Are all channels reliable now?

If "yes", you are done.

If "no" and the 'problem' channel was previously reliable with the individual antenna, you need the AC7 combiner.

I don't understand how to combine the antennas when reversing the splitter. If I turn the "inputs" to "outputs" and the "output" to an "input" I am going to be 1 input short and have 1 extra output I don't need.

ADTech · 11-Mar-2014, 2:19 AM

Quote:

If I turn the "inputs" to "outputs" and the "output" to an "input"

That is the definition of a "reversed splitter". When you turn a splitter around, it becomes a combiner.

The two "outputs" become the inputs, the "input" becomes the combined output.

See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/g...html#splitters

mulliganman · 11-Mar-2014, 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

That is the definition of a "reversed splitter". When you turn a splitter around, it becomes a combiner.

The two "outputs" become the inputs, the "input" becomes the combined output.

See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/g...html#splitters

O.K. I double checked the configuration in my attic. The two coaxial cables (one from each antenna) running into my attic are currently connected to the two "outs" on the Holland 2FS splitter. A very short coaxial cable is coming from the "in" port of the Holland 2FS splitter and connecting to an "in" port of the Channel Master 3410 distribution amp. Doesn't this mean the Holland 2FS is already being used as a "reverse splitter"? If that is the case, should I still disconnect the coax from the antennas connected to the "output" of said splitter (one at a time) to check each antennas reception?

ADTech · 11-Mar-2014, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Doesn't this mean the Holland 2FS is already being used as a "reverse splitter"?

Yes, it is.

Quote:

If that is the case, should I still disconnect the coax from the antennas connected to the "output" of said splitter (one at a time) to check each antennas reception?

Yes, that's correct. If you have one, install a terminator cap on the port that you just removed the cable from.