Help in Eastern Ohio

[aross6]

Was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers here? I have a RCA ANT751R Yagi Antenna and I can pick up the 7's (ABC and CBS) just fine but really would like to get the 9's (NBC and Fox) also. I bought a second RCA ANT751R Yagi, hung it out my second story window pointed at the WTOV9 tower and hooked it up directly to a tv in that bedroom. When scanning it would pause on the 9's like it detected a signal was there but at the end of channel scanning it was no dice (guessing it could see the signal but could not decode it). Anyone have any ideas or suggestions for me? My TVFool report is linked below. Thanks in advance!

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfaf82fa38a4d3

[rabbit73]

Welcome, aross6:

Thank you for the report.

Where is the first 751 located?

Are there any trees or buildings in the signal path from 44 deg magnetic for the second 751 for the 9s?

WTOV is a lot weaker than WTRF. I think a preamp might help.

If that doesn't work, then the antenna outside and higher.

If that doesn't work. then a VHF-High antenna with more gain.

[aross6]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

Welcome, aross6:

Thank you for the report.

Where is the first 751 located?

Are there any trees or buildings in the signal path from 44 deg magnetic for the second 751 for the 9s?

WTOV is a lot weaker than WTRF. I think a preamp might help.

If that doesn't work, then the antenna outside and higher.

If that doesn't work. then a VHF-High antenna with more gain.

The 1st 751 is located on the front roof of the 1st story (above the front porch). The 2nd 751 I had hanging out the back window of a 2nd story bedroom. I'm sure there's probably a signal path issue as it's very hilly here and we live down in a valley. Like I was saying I had the 2nd antenna outside and probably at a height of about 20ft. So you're thinking that since it detected the channel signal was there but it was not strong enough to decode it that a pre-amp might work or would I be better off with a different antenna?

[rabbit73]

First try a preamp; then switch to a higher gain VHF-High antenna if necessary, like the MCM 30-2475 or 30-2476 with the front end tilted up to catch the signal coming down from the crest of the hill.

[aross6]

Originally Posted by rabbit73

First try a preamp; then switch to a higher gain VHF-High antenna if necessary, like the MCM 30-2475 or 30-2476 with the front end tilted up to catch the signal coming down from the crest of the hill.

Thanks a million! Until you mentioned a preamp, I forgot I had a GE Video Signal Amp with a -24db return path down in my basement. Went downstairs and grabbed it, hooked it up and hung the antenna out the 2nd story window again. With a little fine tuning I was able to pick up WTOV9 (with a weak-to-normal signal but no pixelation). My next move is to hop up on the roof this afternoon and mount this [2nd] Yagi up there (which should net me an extra 8-10ft of height from where I had just tested it at). My plan is to get a Channel Master JoinTenna to hook up to this antenna as well so as it will filter out everything EXCEPT WTOV9, and then combine it with the antenna on the front of my house which is pointed right at WTRF7. Thanks again!

Edit: Upon checking things our further, I may not even need 2 Yagi's as the one pointed at WTOV9 seems to pick up WTRF7 pretty well (I'm guessing it's either picking it up off of the back of the antenna or due to signal deflection off of a hill. They're 90° apart so it's hard to say... I guess my true test will be going to Lowes to grab the rest of what I need and then heading up on the roof to get things mounted.

[aross6]

Got my Yagi up on the uppermost roof and I get WTOV9 (2Edge @ 20 miles away) AND WTRF7 (2Edge @ 5.5 miles away) off of just the one antenna with crazy terrain all around us. WTOV9 comes in with a signal strength of 75 and WTRF7 comes in with a signal strength of 86. Guess I don't have to worry about combining the 2 antennas so the [original] one above the front porch is coming off and getting returned. There's probably a little room for improvement there somewhere but I'm getting clear picture with no pixelation. The weird thing is I was only able to pick up WTOV9 when my RCA ANT751R was turned on it's side. Mounting it traditionally would result in no signal. Strange for sure... but I guess in the end it's only the result that matters. Either way, the cord is officially CUT! Thanks for all your help!!!

[rabbit73]

Thanks for the report of your experiments. Rough terrain can do weird things to a signal.

It's even more odd because WTOV is only transmitting horizontal polarization. Some channels use horizontal and vertical polarization which results in elliptical polarization, IIRC.

http://www.rabbitears.info/tvq.php?r...ms&facid=74122

[Billiam]

That story about turning the antenna on its side to get it to work for WTOV.

The terrain in that area does weird things with signals. I clearly recall on two separate occasions being in a motel room in Crafton, PA which is in the Pittsburgh area and being able to receive Youngstown stations. This was around Thanksgiving. I often travel with a small 19" TV and a 4 bay antenna to use rather than the cable offerings in the motels. Get more local signals that way and a better picture. In any event, it was definitely not skip since it happened during two different trips a year apart and not during skip season. I checked the TV Fool report for that motel's location and there is no way any signal from Youngstown should have been received there. All were Tropo and had a NM well below zero.

[aross6]

Originally Posted by Billiam

That story about turning the antenna on its side to get it to work for WTOV.

The terrain in that area does weird things with signals. I clearly recall on two separate occasions being in a motel room in Crafton, PA which is in the Pittsburgh area and being able to receive Youngstown stations. This was around Thanksgiving. I often travel with a small 19" TV and a 4 bay antenna to use rather than the cable offerings in the motels. Get more local signals that way and a better picture. In any event, it was definitely not skip since it happened during two different trips a year apart and not during skip season. I checked the TV Fool report for that motel's location and there is no way any signal from Youngstown should have been received there. All were Tropo and had a NM well below zero.

Yea that's definitely crazy! I'm just happy I'm able to get WTRF7 (ABC, CBS, etc) and WTOV9 (NBC, FOX, etc) now and especially off of just 1 antenna. Now I'm able to send the other antenna I have back, which essentially cut my roof-install costs in half. Plus I can watch all the good shows on NBC and FOX now too!

[WIRELESS ENGINEER]

If you live down in Barton, you will be lucky to get 7
I would suggest taking a vhf high band yagi and putting it up on the hillside as far as you can get it
I live on Barton road and I know even two way radios for police and fire don't work well in Barton
I put up a Channel master 8 bay bowtie and I get vhf channels 7, 9, 11, and 13 and get 49 channels total but I'm on TOP of the hill outside Barton
Rabbit73 is right in the money

[aross6]

Originally Posted by WIRELESS ENGINEER

If you live down in Barton, you will be lucky to get 7
I would suggest taking a vhf high band yagi and putting it up on the hillside as far as you can get it
I live on Barton road and I know even two way radios for police and fire don't work well in Barton
I put up a Channel master 8 bay bowtie and I get vhf channels 7, 9, 11, and 13 and get 49 channels total but I'm on TOP of the hill outside Barton
Rabbit73 is right in the money

I DO live down in Barton... right past the Fireman's Field. I get WTOV9 (9.1, 9.2, & 9.3) with a signal strength of 75 and WTRF7 (7.1, 7.2, 7.3, & 7.4) with a signal strength of 85. Had to turn my Yagi sideways to get WTOV9 to come in but that did the trick. If you're up on Barton Road just PM me sometime and I'd be happy to show you my setup. When it rained pretty good the other night (election night) I did experience some signal loss on WTOV9... I'm thinking of picking up a ClearStream Juice preamp to mount up on the antenna mast and hopefully that'll help with signal loss situations like the one I just described. The preamp I have now is inside the house so there's a good 35-40 feet of coax between it and the antenna. On a clear day/night it's perfect though!

[WIRELESS ENGINEER]

That's another thing about being in a valley, you may get a signal reflection from the opposite direction
I have a field strength meter that ma help to aim your antennas
Also don't buy a preamp yet
I have a new in box channel master 7777 you can try first
Preamps are mainly for compensating for long lengths of coax so I would instead suggest you purchase the vhf yagi from mcm electronics
At $24.95 it will do FAR more to improve reception than ANY preamp