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Old 3-Jun-2017, 12:53 PM   #1
urhstry
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LG TV no signal meter?

I just bought an LG HDTV and I can't find a signal strength meter for my OTA signals. Did they do away with that? For such a feature rich set I can't believe they would leave something like that out. If they did, is there another way to find out?
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Old 3-Jun-2017, 3:08 PM   #2
JoeAZ
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I don't know of too many sets out there currently that
come with signal meters. Vizio flat panels as they are
called, don't even come with a tuner..... i've seen a
few Westhinghouse, Toshiba and Hitachi with meters
but most don't have them...... You can try contacting
LG to see if there is any meter or any way to access
one.....
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Old 3-Jun-2017, 3:31 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum, urhstry
Quote:
I just bought an LG HDTV
What is the model number of the TV? Sometimes it is hidden in the menu.

Yes, the signal strength indicator is very useful for OTA reception.

I like the Diagnostics Screen on my Sony TVs that gives relative signal strength, SNR, and uncorrected errors.

If your TV doesn't have one, you would need a separate meter.

Are you having a problem with a particular channel?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Jun-2017 at 4:54 PM.
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Old 3-Jun-2017, 4:58 PM   #4
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The model number is 55UH7700. I contacted LG on their chat but the guy asked me, "what exactly is a signal meter?" I knew at that point he had no clue. So i am not convinced that my set does not have one. I went from a TV that had a terrible tuner to this one. I want to make sure I am not overdriving the tuner with my inline amp. Plus if I DO amplify it more, can I possibly get a channel or two more.
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Old 3-Jun-2017, 5:44 PM   #5
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Thank you.
Yup, he doesn't have a clue. Do you have a manual? It is often under manual tuning.
Quote:
I want to make sure I am not overdriving the tuner with my inline amp. Plus if I DO amplify it more, can I possibly get a channel or two more.
Too much amplification will cause tuner overload and you will end up with fewer channels.

Can you tell us more about your antenna setup and give a link to your tvfool signal report?
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29
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Old 3-Jun-2017, 6:06 PM   #6
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Settings > Channels > Manual Tuning
You can manually tune and save channels.
You can check the signal strength of digital broadcasting.



from User Guide zip file:

http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-55UH7700#

also in User Guide HTML file under Tour List of Settings
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File Type: jpg LG 55UH7700 Manual Tuning2.JPG (60.3 KB, 257 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Jun-2017 at 6:33 PM.
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Old 3-Jun-2017, 8:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
I want to make sure I am not overdriving the tuner with my inline amp.
Since you didn't give us a tvfool report, I had to make an estimate of your location to give a better answer.



Your signals are quite weak and 2Edge (interference from terrain). You will need a high gain antenna for UHF and VHF-High aimed at 60 degrees magnetic.

You should use a preamp at the antenna. If you have more than one TV, try a passive splitter before adding a distribution amp.

WQPX is the weakest signal you will be able to receive, except when there is signal enhancement from Tropospheric Propagation
Attached Images
File Type: jpg urhstryTVFest.JPG (170.7 KB, 238 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Jun-2017 at 8:30 PM.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 12:58 AM   #8
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Here is my link...
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a427afdb8385

I have a CM5018 and a CM-7777 Amp. I can NOT get channel 64 which is 8 channels (64-1 to 64-8) that I really wish I had. Thanks for the manual tuning help.... I'm going to try that now.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 1:08 AM   #9
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and you were correct.... signal strength AND signal quality... Channel 64, 25% strength, 1% quality. I wonder how high I would have to move my antenna to get it.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 1:51 PM   #10
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Lots of good information guys. I've been looking for a new
55" set and will definitely consider the LG based on what
I've read in these threads. As for antenna height, what is
the height of the top of the tree canopy in your area??
That would determine how high you might need to go to
recover WQPX. You sit in a valley, so it may not be
reasonably possible to get enough height......

Last edited by JoeAZ; 4-Jun-2017 at 2:00 PM.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 2:05 PM   #11
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Where can I find that information?
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 2:15 PM   #12
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I would suggest you find the exact elevation at your home via
google earth. You can then move around your area and see
what the elevation is to your Northeast. You would need to
overcome that difference PLUS the height of the trees, usually
about 50-60 feet......
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 2:46 PM   #13
urhstry
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Cool

Google Earth shows my home at 875'. WQPX states their antenna height is at 1160ft. A neighbor about 100 yards from me can get the stations I can not, and he is further away by distance so something is blocking my path. I got a guy with an 80' bucket truck... I may require his help.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 7:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urhstry View Post
Here is my link...
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a427afdb8385

I have a CM5018 and a CM-7777 Amp. I can NOT get channel 64 which is 8 channels (64-1 to 64-8) that I really wish I had. Thanks for the manual tuning help.... I'm going to try that now.
Thanks for the tvfool link. Very close to my estimate.

Which 7777 do you have; the old one with two antenna inputs, or the new one with only one antenna input? Where is the antenna located on your property? Where is the 7777 located? How long is the coax from the preamp to your power inserter and TV?

WQPX is your weakest possible signal. It is difficult to receive any signals with a NM of less than -10 dB. If you do receive a signal that has a NM of less than -10 dB, you have an excellent antenna system, your tvfool report is wrong, or they have been enhanced by Tropospheric Propagation.



This is the way it works: You must have enough antenna gain to give at least the minimum required SNR of 15 dB plus enough gain to offset the NF of the preamp. Once there is enough signal for the preamp, it will amplify the signal and the noise to overcome distribution losses and bury the noise figure of the tuner in the amplified thermal noise floor.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-Sep-2017 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 7:34 PM   #15
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urhstry View Post
Google Earth shows my home at 875'. WQPX states their antenna height is at 1160ft. A neighbor about 100 yards from me can get the stations I can not, and he is further away by distance so something is blocking my path. I got a guy with an 80' bucket truck... I may require his help.
I tried different antenna heights using the tvfool interactive map browser:

WQPX Noise Margin
10 ft, -10.8 dB NM
25 ft, -13.5 dB
40 ft, -13.5 dB
50 ft, -13.3 dB
75 ft, -12.4 dB
100 ft, -11.9 dB
150 ft, -11.0 dB
200 ft, -8.9 dB
250 ft, -6.8 dB
300 ft, -4.5 dB
350 ft, -2.3 dB
400 ft, -0.2 dB
450 ft, +1.7 dB
500 ft, +3.7 dB, but still 2Edge because of terrain interference

What is interesting is the better NM at 10 ft which is the default height I used in the report I did. The better number at 10 feet than at 40 feet is probably because of signal enhancement from ground reflection; I've seen it before.

You would have to go pretty high for a big improvement in NM and I don't see a lot of higher areas on your property.

That just leaves tweaks to your antenna system.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Jun-2017 at 7:38 PM.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 7:44 PM   #16
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If you click on the WQPX callsign in your report you will see the terrain profile between the WQPX transmitter and your location on the right:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dALLTV%26n%3d9

You can see there isn't much signal left when it reaches your antenna. Also, there is only 68 kW ERP left out of 528 kW ERP because of the directional antenna used by WQPX.

Here is another profile done with other software:



and a contour map:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg urhstryTVFp2WQPX.JPG (99.2 KB, 168 views)
File Type: jpg urhstryTVFmap1.JPG (109.0 KB, 168 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Jun-2017 at 7:53 PM.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 8:04 PM   #17
rabbit73
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Here is a coverage map for WQPX. You are on the extreme fringe:







I'm not certain where your property line is, but it looks like you might pick up one dB if the antenna is just east of the house instead of on the west side in the small plowed area.

Other things to consider are an antenna with more gain and a preamp with a lower noise figure.

If you go to separate antennas for UHF and VHF, it sometimes helps to tilt the front end of the UHF antenna up to catch the signals coming down from the mountain peak.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg urhstryTVFcovWQPX.JPG (93.7 KB, 171 views)
File Type: jpg urhstryTVFcovWQPXcu.JPG (98.5 KB, 167 views)
File Type: jpg urhstryTVFcovWQPXcu2.JPG (39.4 KB, 167 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Jun-2017 at 8:33 PM.
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 8:43 PM   #18
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I have the newer CM-7777 amp (one input). It is mounted on the 7 foot shaft at the peak of my roof that the antenna is attached to, about 16" of cable between them. I have about 30 feet of cable from the amp to a splitter. The new TV is about 10 feet off the splitter.
From what it looks like, nothing is going to get me that channel or channel 31 (-11.3NM). Very wierd since everyone around me can pick it up and my system is newer and a tad higher. Would it be worth it to play with a second antenna at ~10ft and see what I could get? What about adding a 'tuned' element to the antenna?
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Old 4-Jun-2017, 11:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
I have the newer CM-7777 amp (one input). It is mounted on the 7 foot shaft at the peak of my roof that the antenna is attached to, about 16" of cable between them. I have about 30 feet of cable from the amp to a splitter. The new TV is about 10 feet off the splitter.
That sounds OK. I hope there is a power inserter before the splitter.

Does the reception improve if you bypass the splitter and connect the power inserter to just one TV as a test?
Quote:
From what it looks like, nothing is going to get me that channel or channel 31 (-11.3NM).
Your two weakest channels are at a different azimuth, 56 degrees magnetic. Have you checked the aim?
Quote:
Very wierd since everyone around me can pick it up and my system is newer and a tad higher.
It might be higher on your house, but not higher in elevation. If your neighbor to the SSW had an antenna at 40 feet, it would be 124 feet higher than your antenna.

There could be a weak link in your system. What equipment are they using?

When PCT International bought out Channel Master, they fired its best engineers and closed the NC plant. Since then, the quality of their equipment is not as good. The 7777 that I bought recently only had a gain of 23 dB instead of 30 dB as stated in the specs. They were getting a lot of returns of the 7777 because users were having overload problems with it. I suspect they made a secret redesign to try and solve the overload problem by reducing the gain.
Quote:
Would it be worth it to play with a second antenna at ~10ft and see what I could get?
If you want to experiment with a UHF antenna, try a Solid Signal HDB91X, which has a tilt adjustment. Add a low noise preamp like the Kitztech KT-200 coax powered outdoor version, and new RG6 coax.
http://kitztech.com/KT200.html

The KT-200 has a low noise figure, which allows reception of weaker signals, but is a little more subject to static damage, as is true with all ultra low-noise preamps; that's the trade off.
Quote:
What about adding a 'tuned' element to the antenna?
Your CM antenna is very rugged, but I'm not impressed with the gain specs. I doubt that you will be able to improve its performance by adding an element, but you are welcome to try.

Please note that WQPX has co-channel interference from WTAJ on the same channel, but it is in a different direction.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 4-Jun-2017 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 5-Jun-2017, 1:23 AM   #20
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Not sure what you mean by a power inserter. I have the DC powered coax line that was part of the amp kit. I'll have to try putting the line off the amp directly into the set.
As for the preamp and antenna suggestion, what can I expect from this combo compared to what I have? I noticed you mentioned RG6 coax. I am running the original coax that was here from the 80's. Does that make a difference?
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