TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Special Topics > Digital TV and Mobile DTV

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-Oct-2016, 1:22 PM   #1
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
New TV need another tuner

Hi All,

I just bought a Vizio 70" 4K TV and it has no RF inputs. It has several HDMI inputs, 1 Component video, 2 USBs 1 Ethernet and that's it.

I have been researching a little but my brain is hurting from too much info.

So, I ask the group. What is a good two RF input tuner?

Why?

I have two signals from two directions that I have not been able to combine without hurting one signal or the other so I have to have two OTA inputs.

So I am looking for suggestions for a tuner that can handle 2 signals.

Is it available?

Thanks, Bob

Last edited by bobsgarage; 25-Oct-2016 at 11:55 AM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Oct-2016, 1:37 PM   #2
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,746
You didn't buy a "TV set", you bought a video display AKA a monitor. It can not classified as a TV set unless it includes a tuner.

There are no tuners left on the market that have two separate antenna inputs AFAIK. If you have that requirement and combining hasn't worked, get two tuners, one for each direction, and hook them up to separate HDMI ports on your monitor.

External tuners start at less than $35 and go up from there. Many of them, even the entry level ones, offer the option of DVR capability with an added USB hard drive. However, many of those units also feature remotes that are "minimalist", at best, have a clunky user interface, and seem to have buggy software. I haven't experimented much with any of them, so I can't advise you as far as specifics, but I can give those general impressions.

Perhaps someone who does have experience with the currently available set-top tuners can provide some specifics.
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Oct-2016, 2:46 PM   #3
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
You didn't buy a "TV set", you bought a video display AKA a monitor. It can not classified as a TV set unless it includes a tuner.
Ahh, yes I see, thanks for making that distinction, You are correct.

Quote:
There are no tuners left on the market that have two separate antenna inputs AFAIK. If you have that requirement and combining hasn't worked, get two tuners, one for each direction, and hook them up to separate HDMI ports on your monitor.
Yes, I know. I thought the HD Home Run had two RF inputs, but the picture shows only one RF input. But, they call it a 2-tuner.

Quote:
combining hasn't worked,
Yeah, that is the real thorn in my side. I wish there was a way to make it work, because I have excellent signals from each direction, but when combined, I lose some signals.

AD Tech, do you recommend removing the reflectors from a 91XG? Or is it just the bay antennas that works on?

I ask because, it would be a monumental task to get up high enough safely to do such a thing


Quote:
External tuners start at less than $35 and go up from there. Many of them, even the entry level ones, offer the option of DVR capability with an added USB hard drive. However, many of those units also feature remotes that are "minimalist", at best, have a clunky user interface, and seem to have buggy software. I haven't experimented much with any of them, so I can't advise you as far as specifics, but I can give those general impressions.
I have Homeworx HW-150PVR, the HD picture quality is great. The signal meter is kind of a joke though. The display and the meter itself. Today even though I had an excellent signal, the "Signal Quality" display was dead. No color in the dots. It was only $29, but, I can't use two because the remotes will conflict.
If I get another tuner, I want something with a great signal meter also.

Quote:
Perhaps someone who does have experience with the currently available set-top tuners can provide some specifics
.

That's why I came here!

Thanks, Bob

Last edited by bobsgarage; 12-Oct-2016 at 2:50 PM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Oct-2016, 6:47 PM   #4
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,746
Quote:
the HD Home Run had two RF inputs, but the picture shows only one RF input. But, they call it a 2-tuner.
Versions of the HD Home run from a few years ago did have two separate RF inputs, each feeding its own tuner. Subsequently, they went to a single RF connector with an internal splitter so as to support the dual tuners. Unfortunate....

Quote:
do you recommend removing the reflectors from a 91XG?
I've neither investigated or even thought about it.

Quote:
Or is it just the bay antennas that works on?
It works great on the n-bay antennas as long as one understands and accepts the trade-offs.

Quote:
If I get another tuner, I want something with a great signal meter also.
I have yet to see one of those that I'd consider "great" or even more then "nominally useful".

Quote:
I ask because, it would be a monumental task to get up high enough safely to do such a thing
"A man has got to know his limitations." - Clint Eastwood as "Dirty Harry" in the movie "Magnum Force".
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Oct-2016, 12:20 PM   #5
Stereocraig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 457
Have you considered an A/B switch?
I see the Rat Shack 15-1968 remote controlled units on eBay from time to time.
I have one and it works well. You would however, still need a tuner and it will need the ability to ADD channels, VS a full re-scan.
Stereocraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Oct-2016, 12:53 PM   #6
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
A/B switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereocraig View Post
Have you considered an A/B switch?
I see the Rat Shack 15-1968 remote controlled units on eBay from time to time.
I have one and it works well. You would however, still need a tuner and it will need the ability to ADD channels, VS a full re-scan.


Hey Stereocraig,

I had an Radio Shack A/B switch, it must have burned out, it quit working with the remote and manually. I don't want to buy a used one, for now. I really want a tuner box with a good signal meter with a signal strength and signal quality.

I have resigned myself to the fact that my Chicago-Milwaukee combining efforts have been unsuccessful and need to split the signal for optimum reception. I get most channels, but some weaker stations do drop out.

Since my Vizio is not a TV and has no tuner, I want to try to use a tuner with 2 RF inputs, but I see the only one that did was the HD Homerun which isn't made any more, so what I wanted to find one remanufactured or some new old stock. Or... any tuner box with 2 RF inputs of very good quality. I guess that's a pipe dream.

What sucks, is my old Toshiba projection TV has 2 RF inputs! I still have it though. If I went back to that....

Thanks, Bob




bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Oct-2016, 1:19 PM   #7
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
The 3-4 two tuner box

I found this from back in 2012 in this forum:
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2882


Quote:
Quote:
8-Mar-2012, 8:55 PM
* #3
ghz24
Member
*Join Date: May 2011
Location: Central Illinois U.S.
Posts: 71
2 Channels


Most of the tuner boxes have a switch to select between channel 3 or 4 for the boxes output, so you could put one box on 3 and another on 4 and combine the signals with a splitter/combiner into one coax to the TV.

The boxes I use have RCA out as well and their remote "input" button cycles through channel 3 ,4, RCA 1 and RCA 2 on my TV.

This gives me room for 3 separate antennas/tuners selectable from the remote (my dvd uses one set of the TVs RCA inputs)

I went to this partly because even an A/B switch before the tuner kills my weakest signals.

Even leaving off the RCA for the oldest TVs One could combine 4 antennas with 4 tuner boxes, 2 combiners, and one A/B switch just before the TV.
Would this work for me? I mean the CH3 / 4 two tuner box solution?
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Oct-2016, 4:33 PM   #8
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,746
Quote:
What sucks, is my old Toshiba projection TV has 2 RF inputs!
One is probably for the analog tuner, the other is probably for the digital tuners. Perhaps one is for cable only... That was a common configuration about 10-12 years ago as the manufacturers were all still developing integrated analog/digital tuners as part of their product transitions.

Quote:
Would this work for me? I mean the CH3 / 4 two tuner box solution?
Ch 3/4 outputs will be analog standard def only (same as if RCA composite were used) and your new display doesn't even have any tuner, much less an analog one. I can't even imagine how bad SD would look on a 70" 4K display, if it's even possible.

If you're going to consider two separate tuners, go back to my initial recommendation (post #2) and use separate HDMI ports.

If you do still need to go to two tuner's you're also going to need to figure out how to control them separately since most of the cheap ones use IR remotes and, if both boxes are placed so that their IR sensors can see the same area, either remote will control both boxes simultaneously. The option that Tom gave in the thread you found was for adding a single external box to a TV set with an internal tuner and presumed that the remotes would not conflict.

I realize I haven't provided a solution in all this thread, I'm just trying to make you aware of the complications you'll need to avoid.
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Oct-2016, 5:22 PM   #9
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Solution around the corner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
One is probably for the analog tuner, the other is probably for the digital tuners. Perhaps one is for cable only... That was a common configuration about 10-12 years ago as the manufacturers were all still developing integrated analog/digital tuners as part of their product transitions.

Ch 3/4 outputs will be analog standard def only (same as if RCA composite were used) and your new display doesn't even have any tuner, much less an analog one. I can't even imagine how bad SD would look on a 70" 4K display, if it's even possible.

If you're going to consider two separate tuners, go back to my initial recommendation (post #2) and use separate HDMI ports.
Hey AD Tech!
I'm beginning to think the two tuner solution is the only way, unless there is a way to somehow synchronize the phasing of the Milwaukee signal with the Chicago signal.

Unless I was to purchase another 91XG aim opposite to Milwaukee below the Chicago antenna, combine it with my 91XG Chicago antenna on the same mast with the same length RG6 to a combiner/combiner amp and do the same with my two 30-2476 VHF antennas on my other mast and combine the VHF and UHF combinations with a UVSJ? Just an idea, I know that others have successfully combined exact antennas with exact length cables and the phasing wasn't an issue.

I know that's a lot more work and a trip up the mast but I would do it to save the hassle of not only having two tuners in my home theater but to save the hassle of doing that in other rooms as well.



Quote:
If you do still need to go to two tuner's you're also going to need to figure out how to control them separately since most of the cheap ones use IR remotes and, if both boxes are placed so that their IR sensors can see the same area, either remote will control both boxes simultaneously. The option that Tom gave in the thread you found was for adding a single external box to a TV set with an internal tuner and presumed that the remotes would not conflict.
Yes, At that point, I know I would need an different brand of tuner, which I am currently trying to research now. Two different tuners remotes should not interfere with each other, correct?

Quote:
I realize I haven't provided a solution in all this thread, I'm just trying to make you aware of the complications you'll need to avoid.
Maybe you have not provided a solution, but you have illustrated some possibilities and pitfalls to avoid. Extremely helpful. Let me tell you, I am truly appreciative.

Stay with this thread, I will try to provide my solution.

Thanks, Bob

Last edited by bobsgarage; 13-Oct-2016 at 5:25 PM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Oct-2016, 8:32 PM   #10
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,050
Quote:
I know that others have successfully combined exact antennas with exact length cables and the phasing wasn't an issue.
That only works if two identical UHF or VHF antennas are aimed in exactly the same direction.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Oct-2016, 12:43 PM   #11
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Antennas vs. tuners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
That only works if two identical UHF or VHF antennas are aimed in exactly the same direction.
Hi Rabbit

I was hoping. I doubt I will change anything with my set-up except tuners.

I know there are some across the border that are doing just that though, There is a local electronic store who told me in their area-Kenosha WI that their installers point one at Chicago and one at Milwaukee. I didn't ask what antennas they sell. He said they don't sell rotors much anymore.

But, I don't want to experiment anymore. You already know why I don't want 2 inputs two view two markets. Winter is coming

Any suggestions on tuners?

I have the Mediasonic Homeworx HW-150VR already and although the picture is good, I would like one with a good picture but a better signal meter that is a little easier to pull up the meter while I view content.

I am told that I will need another brand to keep remote signals separate.

Thanks, Bob

Last edited by bobsgarage; 14-Oct-2016 at 12:47 PM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Oct-2016, 12:21 AM   #12
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,050
Channel Master has come out with a new tuner, the 7003.
http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital..._p/cm-7003.htm

In theory, it is possible to add its SD analog output from one antenna system to your other system on channel 3 or 4 with the modulator in the 7003.



It is also possible to add its HD output to the other system with a modulator on an unused UHF channel. I haven't done either.



related thread:
Reasonable ATSC-->QAM Transcoding Option?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdt...ng-option.html

My favorite way is still to connect antenna A to the antenna input of the TV and connect antenna B to the input of a separate tuner, with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.

If your "TV" is really a monitor with no tuner, then you will need 2 separate tuners.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CM-7003 Rear Panel.JPG (106.7 KB, 475 views)
File Type: jpg CM-7003 Headend.jpg (93.8 KB, 473 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Oct-2016 at 1:22 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Oct-2016, 2:13 AM   #13
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Quote:
In theory, it is possible to add its SD analog output from one antenna system to your other system on channel 3 or 4 with the modulator in the 7003.
I'm not sure I follow that, sorry. I mean the part of how I get two antenna systems to work on it. Or do you mean combine two STBs?

Quote:
It is also possible to add its HD output to the other system with a modulator on an unused UHF channel. I haven't done either.
I went to that link, and tried to keep up, but I don't even know what a modulator is. Those guys were talking about stuff I never heard of
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Oct-2016, 3:03 AM   #14
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Rabbit, I went back to the post I did back in Hi Def. I'm sharing it because we had covered this problem, But the humor was great:

http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hd...-combined.html


Quote:
I gave you some INFO on the SiliconDust HDHR in post #7, but it isn't a simple easy-to-use system. I don't want to use a computer to watch TV.

I don't know of any TVs with 2 RF inputs.We covered some of this stuff we are talking about now, but I thought I would repost the advice here and the funny part in red, I laughed and had to share it :

If you are OK with two inputs, you would still need to run a second cable to each TV. You may as well have a separate tuner for the 2nd antenna, and run the output of the tuner into the aux input of the TV. It is just as much trouble to switch from ANT to AUX as it is to switch from ANT to ANT. It seems like both would be about the same amount of trouble for your wife.

If you really want a deluxe system, have two TVs at each location, one for each antenna.

Can you setup just one TV for your wife with the antenna that has her favorite channels so that she wouldn't have to switch anything?
LOL!

Thanks, Bob

Last edited by bobsgarage; 15-Oct-2016 at 3:15 AM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Oct-2016, 2:30 PM   #15
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,050
Quote:
Rabbit, I went back to the post I did back in Hi Def. I'm sharing it because we had covered this problem
Ah, yes; I forgot about that. We did cover it fairly well.
Quote:
I just bought a Vizio 70" 4K TV
Which model, M70-C3 or P702ui-B3 or E700i-B3 or something else?

When you bought the Vizio 70" 4K TV without a tuner, your problem got even more complicated. You could have two external tuners, one for each antenna system. The output of one tuner would connect to the HDMI input of the 4K Vizio, and the output of the other tuner would connect to the component input of the Vizio. Alternative: 2 HDMI inputs on the Vizio. You would switch inputs of the Vizio to switch antenna systems if the Vizio would allow that to work.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 15-Oct-2016 at 11:16 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Oct-2016, 9:53 PM   #16
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Ah, yes; I forgot about that. We did cover it fairly well.
Which model, M70-C3 or P702ui-B3 or E700i-B3 or something else?

When you bought the Vizio 70" 4K TV without a tuner, your problem got even more complicated. You could have two external tuners, one for each antenna system. The output of one tuner would connect to the HDMI input of the 4K Vizio, and the output of the other tuner would connect to the component input of the Vizio. Alternative: 2 HDMI inputs on the Vizio. You would switch inputs of the Vizio to switch antenna systems if the Vizio would allow that to work.


Wow, bummer, I wrote a detailed reply to your quote above, hit preview, the screen went white and never recovered! My post is now part of the twilight zone in cyberspace

The new Vizio part # E70u-D3.

Good news! :

It has 4 HDMI ports, One composite Video 5 cable input, one USB 3.0, one USB 2.0, One Ethernet, 802.11 dual band wireless, one optical video, Red/white RCA output, 8 core processor, whatever that means.















2016-10-15 Vizio 70 inch TV 003.JPG

2016-10-15 Vizio 70 inch TV 002.JPG

2016-10-15 Vizio 70 inch TV 007.JPG
The salesman tried awfully hard to get me into the M or P series and really tried to dismiss Vizio as a second rate display device. He tried to push me into a $4000 55" Sony, that was nice, the black level was incredible. But that wasn't what I came in for.

But I was also impressed with the E70u-D3 with the 4K input that was showing some Ultra Hi Def video of Chicago at night and I couldn't stop staring. It was good enough for me. $1295 + tax and away I went.

I could have bought the uplevel Vizios but I had original budgeted for the Vizio 65" at $995 and went there to buy it because it was $895 on sale. But I was drawn to the 70". When one is above the other the size difference is really noticeable. So they got me Good marketing.

I've yet to do anything 4K on it, I will be looking for a 4K DVD player.

Last edited by bobsgarage; 16-Oct-2016 at 5:54 AM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Oct-2016, 11:31 PM   #17
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,050
Thanks for the model number; I wanted to be sure that you really did buy a display with no tuner. The M and P have tuners.
Quote:
Wow, bummer, I wrote a detailed reply to your quote above, hit preview, the screen went white and never recovered! My post is now part of the twilight zone in cyberspace
I hate it when that happens to me. Lately, I have been doing a copy and paste of the post text or composing long posts on Word Pad so that I don't have to start all over.

Your attachments don't show. They need to be linked to a post and that link must have been lost when you lost the original post. I always add them as an attachment to a post the first time, and then they are available for reuse because they are in my list of attachments. I notice you are in the habit of creating an attachment for your list of attachments and then adding a link to it in a post, which is the reverse of the way I do it.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-Oct-2016, 5:56 AM   #18
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Fixed it. Some extra space ther but not a dealbreaker :)

Fixed attachments above. Some extra space there but not a dealbreaker

They showed in my first reply on the one that got sucked into the twilight zone. Since the attachment wind was still open I jut copied from there. Bad move.

I was afraid to preview again so I just hit "Save" Ooops !

Last edited by bobsgarage; 16-Oct-2016 at 6:00 AM.
bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-Oct-2016, 12:33 PM   #19
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,746
After haven been bitten by long forum posts that ended up lost, I found that the combination of Firefox plus the add-on "Lazurus" has solved that issue. Lazurus keeps a copy of your post in it's memory and, if the forum or the browser chokes and dies, the post can be salvaged upon retrying. Worth it to make the change if you have to!
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-Oct-2016, 4:07 PM   #20
bobsgarage
Member
 
bobsgarage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beach Park IL
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
After haven been bitten by long forum posts that ended up lost, I found that the combination of Firefox plus the add-on "Lazurus" has solved that issue. Lazurus keeps a copy of your post in it's memory and, if the forum or the browser chokes and dies, the post can be salvaged upon retrying. Worth it to make the change if you have to!
Lazurus? Interesting. Another great tip.

Losing a post like that sucks indeed. Another technique is to copy the text and submit, come back and edit. The problem is it doesn't happen enough for me to think about it on a regular basis, it seems to happen just often enough to catch me by surprise.

I am going to install Firefox this morning and check out Lazurus. The name is appropriate.

bobsgarage is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Special Topics > Digital TV and Mobile DTV


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 4:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC