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Old 14-Oct-2014, 9:53 PM   #1
mg123
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Help with antenna recommendation

Cut the cable cord and am now viewing OTA. Would like to mount the antenna in the attic as it would be easier for me to install.

Planning on using existing coax cable from the no longer used comcast cable tv service. Still have internet service from comcast, so I do not want to cause problems with that service. I disconnected several tv coax feeds from the comcast splitter (or preamp???) that is located in the attic and connected those tv coaxs to the antenna. I did not disconnect anything from the comcast feed from the outside of the house as I am not sure what feeds the tv and what feeds the internet. Didn't want to cause problems with internet service or cause any kind of "back feed" (??) problem if I connect my tv antenna to the comcast outside house feed.

Additional info that might be important: Attic space is low and cramped. Tall, mature trees in the neighborhood. Two story home.

Have tried the following antennas in attic:

ClearStream V2: not great

Winegard Freevision FVHD30H: Currently have it connected to 2 tv with splitter and works great on those two tvs. Additional 2nd antenna (also in attic) is hooked up to one tv (with no splitter) but going into the Tivo premiere dvr and then Tivo is connected to tv via hdmi connection. That set up with the Tivo is not working very good as I am having pixels and picture issues. Signal strength is about 60-80 percent on channels.

Winegard Flatwave Air (not impressed, did not work for me)

Mohu Leaf 50 (amplified): was better than Winegard, but thought I could do better with something else.


Link to TV Fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2435bcd35a620

What am I doing wrong...... This is all so confusing.... Any suggestions?

Last edited by mg123; 14-Oct-2014 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 15-Oct-2014, 12:50 PM   #2
timgr
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I'm an engineer, but not an antenna engineer or an industry member.

First, I'd say run new wiring for your antenna. Forget trying to use the cable feed. Any splitters that Comcast provides are immediately suspect, because they may block broadcast TV frequencies. Not a preamp.

I suggest you buy a NEW long RG-6 cable. Connect it directly to the TV and whatever antenna you want to try. Run a scan in your living room, in your attic and on the roof, and compare the results. The CV2 is a pretty nice antenna - https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...V-Antenna.html - look at the technical specs. I would expect it to perform splendidly for you if it were roof mounted, above the trees.

Any splitter will attenuate the signal from the antenna. So will long runs of cable, but not as much as a splitter.

If you bought all these antennas, I think you're basically spending a lot of money on a bunch of roughly equivalent products. Likely they are all operating down at the margins of acceptable signal, and that is magnifying the slight differences between the antennas. If you want better reception, you'll need to go big and go high. The attic installation is severely handicapped from the start, and likely to be disappointing.

Get up in the clear air, above the tops of the trees. Your TVFool report is favorable - you should be able to get a bunch of Memphis stations if you point your antenna N-NW. Likely there is significant attenuation and interference from the building and the surrounding trees.

Last edited by timgr; 15-Oct-2014 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 15-Oct-2014, 1:22 PM   #3
ADTech
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Quote:
What am I doing wrong...... This is all so confusing.... Any suggestions?
The problem is that the signals are being severely impaired by the trees and the problem has been compounded by your selection of the attic to place the antenna. I like to compare attics to a black hole. They suck in signal and there's no way of knowing what's inside until you get in there and thoroughly explore the attic to see if you can find a spot where everything plays nice. That spot doesn't always exist, though. Simply putting an antenna up in the attic and expecting it to work flawlessly is an expectation that almost always goes unmet.

The C2V should indeed be the best performer of the antennas you've named. Follow the previous suggestion of getting a long (25-50') coax cable for testing. Search for an antenna location tat offers whatever passes for the best view towards the horizon in the direction of the broadcast towers, whether that location is above, below, or to the side of the trees and any adjacent buildings or structures.

Do NOT use any amplifiers. Whatever signals reach you will be very strong even if they are too damaged by multipath to be cleanly decoded. An amp will only turn garbage into amplified garbage.

When it comes to tuners, numerous forum posters have complained about the one in the Premiere. I have one and it's worked very well for me in my own signal-impaired location, so individual results seem to vary.

Best of luck!
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Old 15-Oct-2014, 4:16 PM   #4
Ben Myers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg123 View Post
Cut the cable cord and am now viewing OTA. Would like to mount the antenna in the attic as it would be easier for me to install.

Planning on using existing coax cable from the no longer used comcast cable tv service. Still have internet service from comcast, so I do not want to cause problems with that service. I disconnected several tv coax feeds from the comcast splitter (or preamp???) that is located in the attic and connected those tv coaxs to the antenna. I did not disconnect anything from the comcast feed from the outside of the house as I am not sure what feeds the tv and what feeds the internet. Didn't want to cause problems with internet service or cause any kind of "back feed" (??) problem if I connect my tv antenna to the comcast outside house feed.

Additional info that might be important: Attic space is low and cramped. Tall, mature trees in the neighborhood. Two story home.

Have tried the following antennas in attic:

ClearStream V2: not great

Winegard Freevision FVHD30H: Currently have it connected to 2 tv with splitter and works great on those two tvs. Additional 2nd antenna (also in attic) is hooked up to one tv (with no splitter) but going into the Tivo premiere dvr and then Tivo is connected to tv via hdmi connection. That set up with the Tivo is not working very good as I am having pixels and picture issues. Signal strength is about 60-80 percent on channels.

Winegard Flatwave Air (not impressed, did not work for me)

Mohu Leaf 50 (amplified): was better than Winegard, but thought I could do better with something else.


Link to TV Fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2435bcd35a620

What am I doing wrong...... This is all so confusing.... Any suggestions?
If the only problem you are having is with the TiVo-connected equipment, try moving or turning the antenna. You may have to get someone downstairs to watch the television while you make changes. Also, make sure the connections are tight, since loose connections can cause interference and signal loss.
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Old 15-Oct-2014, 10:42 PM   #5
mg123
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Thank you for all your input, I appreciate you taking the time to offer assistance to a complete idiot here!

I will ask my husband to try and get the antenna on the roof - or at least outside and high up. Height is not either one of our favorite things! But maybe we can at least try to see what the antenna picks up outside.

I re-purchased the Clearstream CV2 again, so I will try that antenna for this test. HOWEVER, when I look at the specs for the Clearstream CV2 it says it is for UHF 7-13. Two of my channels that are giving me more problems than others are the real channel 5 and also 13. So the Clearstream will still work with the lo-uhf channel 5?

I also will test disconnecting the Tivo premiere and see if I still get pixels. I will say that we had the Tivo HD (I think it died, so cannot use it anymore) connected and the signals it received seemed to be much better than what the premiere is getting. So maybe the Tivo premiere is the root of the problem. Or at least making it much worse than it should be.....

All very confusing!! If cable hadn't kept consistently raising their prices I would still be with them. But the price they charge for their horrible tv channels is simply not worth the money. Free TV would be wonderful, but I had no idea it would be this difficult to get consistent signals.
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Old 16-Oct-2014, 12:56 PM   #6
timgr
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If you don't want to go on your roof, you can hire an installer to do the work for you. There is a link at the top of the forum to connect with an installer. The installer could also advise on what antenna would work best for you. And you would also get some kind of assurance that the installation will work correctly.

Hiring someone to help you could be a good investment. Realize that your antenna installation will be a one-time cost, and your cable bill is a continuing and increasing expense. Spend money now, save money later.

You are right, the CV2 is not intended to receive VHF low, and WMC 5 may not come in very well, if at all. I believe there are few antennas specifically designed to receive VHF low. With the right signal combiner, you could add an Antennacraft Y526 to the CV2 and aim it at Memphis. http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasVHF.html Inexpensive too. Of course, the Y526 is meant for roof mounting, so it's not really suitable for use indoors. Maybe it will work in your attic, if you have the room ... but be prepared to be disappointed if you try that.

Roof mount antennas that will cover all these channels are available. Look at the Antennacraft HD series - http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas...llChannel.html
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Old 16-Oct-2014, 2:17 PM   #7
ADTech
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Quote:
Clearstream CV2 it says it is for UHF 7-13.
It actually says it's for VHF 7-13 & UHF 14-51. :thumb:

Your WMC signal is the strongest on your chart with a calculates noise margin of over 70 dB, that's 10 million times MORE signal than is needed for reception, before building penetration losses and other impairments. If a C2V cannot pick up a channel 5 signal that strong, there is something else wrong at your location, it's not the antenna itself. Your channel 13 signal is almost as strong and should be effectively received barring impairments from localized sources.

Quote:
I had no idea it would be this difficult to get consistent signals.
The rules have changed, this isn't your daddy's (or even your own, if you're a bit older as I am) analog TV system. With digital reception, either your reception is good enough to be perfect.... or it isn't. When it's perfect, it's fabulous. When it isn't it's frustrating. Therefore, it's our goal to get you to the point where the signal is good enough to get reception that's as close to perfect as possible. That almost always requires a mix of the proper equipment and installation. Choosing shortcuts often works against this goal by compromising the performance capabilities of the equipment and often leads to less than satisfactory results.

Good luck!
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Old 16-Oct-2014, 7:01 PM   #8
mg123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
It actually says it's for VHF 7-13 & UHF 14-51. :thumb:

Your WMC signal is the strongest on your chart with a calculates noise margin of over 70 dB, that's 10 million times MORE signal than is needed for reception, before building penetration losses and other impairments. If a C2V cannot pick up a channel 5 signal that strong, there is something else wrong at your location, it's not the antenna itself. Your channel 13 signal is almost as strong and should be effectively received barring impairments from localized sources.
OK, I put the ClearStream 2V in the attic last night to see how it would work. Hooked up to the existing comcast coax into the one tv with the tivo dvr. Seems to be working very well right now. Ch 5 & 13 are coming in well. Unfortunately the attic is not tall and I cannot hang it from rafters. So the antenna is simply propped up on a box and pointing in the NW direction of the towers. And it is located in an area where there is a lot of duct work and about 15 feet away from the HVAC units. With all that being said, it is surprisingly working better than I had expected - this second time around with the 2V antenna. Maybe I did something wrong with it the first time around. Had a couple of picture hiccups last night on a particular station (ch 3, CBS), but nothing that was terrible. Seems to be working really nicely this morning/afternoon. The weather is clear and sunny, so possibly that has a lot to do with the good signal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
The rules have changed, this isn't your daddy's (or even your own, if you're a bit older as I am) analog TV system.
Yep - right there with ya! I remember those Indian test patterns on the tv very well And those rabbit ear antennas that would drive you crazy to try and get the reception in - even when adding the "tin foil". Then along came cable to ease all our reception troubles for all these many years. Except one thing - the cost of cable just kept skyrocketing but the quality of programs to watch went consistently down!!

Thanks timgr for the suggestion to look into a professional installer. VERY good advice as getting on the roof is not something my husband should be doing. Some things should be left to the pros! Will look into the cost of getting it up on the roof.

I have another question that is unrelated to the above. My TV sets and also the Tivo have "signal strength meters" but I cannot find anything for signal "quality". From reading these threads on the board, it seems that you can have strong signals (as I think we have) but still have signal "quality" issues. How do you measure that? Is there a "meter" to do so?

In my Tivo dvr there is a "diagnostic" screen that I can access in the software but it brings up a lot of technical details that I have no idea what I am looking at. When viewing that "diagnostic" screen is there something that I should look for that would tell me if the "quality" of my signal is good?

Also, just saw on our local WMC tv station (local NBC) website that they suggest this antenna: Channel Master CM3016 Suburban Advantage TV Antenna. Would this be better than the ClearStream 2V antenna?

Again - thanks for all the help

Last edited by mg123; 16-Oct-2014 at 7:17 PM.
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Old 16-Oct-2014, 8:03 PM   #9
ADTech
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When viewing that "diagnostic" screen is there something that I should look for that would tell me if the "quality" of my signal is good?
It's been a while since I looked at that screen, but, IIRC, look at the SNR (should be above 18-20 with 15-16 as the bare minimum for decoding). I can't remember what else is in that menu, I'll try to remember to look at it when I get home.
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