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Old 24-Jul-2011, 9:35 PM   #1
PaulJiv
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Clearstream 4 over Garage

I decided to pick up a clearstream 4 and install in the attic over the garage. My Garage is unfinished and when I built the house I ran a lead up there. I went to a local TV shop and the shop owner was going to sell me a small bowtie antenna similar to a DB2. I went to Costco and they had the clearstream 2 setup on a small TV to demonstrate. I did not flip through all of the channels but I did scan a few and the picture was OK. My thinking was that with snow on the roof in the winter the larger CS4 may help with picking up signal. I have the antenna mounted and test on 1 tv in my bedroom. I am able to pickup signal but have not fine tuned anything I just picked a channel to see what the signal was. I was about 85% according to the Sharp channel menu. Eventually I would like to hook up both TV's. When the scan completed it does not appear that all of the channels are coming in. I have not counted how many I am receiving or what I am receiving yet. Reading several recent posts the most popular attic mount appears to be a CM 4228 or DB4. Should I have went with a bowtie antenna or will the CS4 work just as well.

Here is the link to my exact address
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...03f3c8cdd71ca7

Thanks for your suggestions. I previously posted but I am not able to see that it saved.
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Old 24-Jul-2011, 10:33 PM   #2
ADTech
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The C4 should be fine in your application. Make certain the front of the loops is facing perpendicular to your north west.

Take the time to go through the channels received to verify you're getting all your locals from the main site southwest of SLC. Do be prepared to move the antenna to other spots within the garage's attic should you find you're got a colt spot for one or more of the stations.
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Old 24-Jul-2011, 10:45 PM   #3
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

All the receivable channels at your location are UHF channels and of moderate to strong signal strength , 39 NM(dB) to 57 NM(dB) . Are all LOS Line Of Sight and easy to receive at 298 degree magnetic compass. The ClearStream 4 will work very well. Put the antenna in the attic and see if all the tv stations at 298 degree magnetic compass are received. . How many tv's will be connected??

Last edited by John Candle; 25-Jul-2011 at 5:44 PM.
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Old 24-Jul-2011, 10:52 PM   #4
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695 . Here are some but not all free tv guides , http://www.zap2it.com , http://television.aol.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://www.titantv.com , http://www.tvzap.com , http://tv.entertainment.excite.com
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Old 24-Jul-2011, 10:59 PM   #5
PaulJiv
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Eventually I will hook up 2 TV's. I have the main run from the garage to the basement about 30 feet of cable. I have all of the bedrooms upstairs wired, and the master bed is on the far end of the house so about 40 more feet. TV in living room about 20' of cable. I have not attempted to split the signal yet.
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Old 24-Jul-2011, 11:00 PM   #6
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

The front of the antenna is the loops , the flat surface of the loops face the transmitters at about 298 degree magnetic compass. The antenna should supply signal to 2 tv's , with a 2 way splitter. Googling the tv stations call signs shows that , KULX-LD 14 is Telemundo , K59GS 21 is Family Net , KSVN-LD 25 is Azteca America , K39JS-D 39 is Azteca America.

Last edited by John Candle; 24-Jul-2011 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 26-Jul-2011, 7:04 PM   #7
PaulJiv
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Clearstream 4 and Sony KDS-55A3000

Ok this one is beyond me and maybe you more experienced can provide me with some info. So this past weekend I spent majority of the weekend installing the Clearstream 4 in the attic over garage. I have changed the location all over in the attic. I donít think the problem is with the antenna but I am not sure. So here is my problem.

I can point the antenna at 298/299 Magnetic N per TV report. When I scan for channels I will detect 1 or 2 analog channels then scan up to 8 digital channels. The TV flashes then goes right to channel 50. I am assuming this is an analog signal as it is not clear and there is no digital info. I tried to point the antenna in every direction facing North West to South West 170 to 320 in half inch increments. I found that when I am pointed about 225 Magnetic I can scan and will find and lock 26 channels. I am missing the two channels that I watch the most CBS and FOX. After the Channels are saved I point antenna back to 298 and re scan digital only so that the TV will keep all existing channels. No new channels found. Change input to 2.1 and TV indicates there is no signal. I have scanned the channels that were found and did not see CBS or FOX. I can go into the setup on the TV with antenna still pointed 298 and check signal on several channels will show 90 plus and solid green. If I initiate to start a new setup, I receive warning message indicates that channels will be over written. When I scan 2 analog channels found and TV gets to 8 Digital found then stops and I lose all of the channels that were previously saved. The TV is a Sony KDS-55A3000.

Frustrated I decided to install a splitter and test, as the signal appears to be good once the scan is completed, same issue as described above. So I decided to hook up to TV in my bedroom, which is another 40í of cable. A cheap 32Ē Sharp LCD TV. I complete the scan and it would appear that I am receiving all channels and I didnít change the antenna from 298. Check signal and everything looks good. I receive FOX, CBS and ABC the 3 main channels that I watch. Built a new cable about 25í plug into CS4 then back of Sony pointed at 298 scan get to 2 analog and 8 digital then no digital channels save. Point to the random southwest run scan and find channels. It is only after the scan is completed and channels are locked that I can change back to 298 mag north. If I had to guess I would say that it appears to be the tuner on the Sony TV but this is my first experience with OTA broadcast. For many years I have had either satellite or cable but am ready to cut the cost. My Sony TV has about 2 years remaining on extended warranty, and I have thought about purchasing a TIVO as I really like DVR.

Thanks for your help and suggestions I wasnít sure if I should start a new post or continue this one.
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Old 27-Jul-2011, 3:07 AM   #8
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

I know that you have all ready checked this , on page 39 of the owners manual it says , Cable , and the selection/action to take is , On or Off. The Off selection is the one to select , then the Tv will scan for over the air broadcast tv channels. Is the Sharp Tv newer then the Sony.
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Old 27-Jul-2011, 5:22 AM   #9
PaulJiv
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I did select the Cable to off on the TV prior to scan. I am kind of leaning more toward the problem being the TV. This is my fault for not checking after purchase At the time there was no need as I was on Satellite then to Cable both with the DVR and plugged into HDMI. I am still baffled why I can sometimes scan and lock channels pointed in the wrong direction. This evening I performed a factory reset as outlined on page 49 by pressing the up arrow and pressing power button on the TV. The TV resets and starts the initial setup. When scanning 2 analog channels are found then makes it to 8 digital. TV resets as the screen goes blank and the green led flashes for about 30 seconds. When the screen comes back up it is back to step 1 of the initial setup where it is asking me to select language. This evening I head back out to best buy and purchased a TIVO Premier but I need to find my network tools so I can activate the TIVO and scan the channels. I could activate in my room but the lack of TV may motivate me to finish the wiring in the house . When I was looking through my paperwork I purchased Sony February 2008. The Sharp is a newer TV I think I purchased in early 2010. I did purchase the extended warranty on my Sony and it has almost paid for itself with the bulb going out about 2 years. I should have about 1.5 years remaining on extended warranty, but if the TIVO works I may just live with it. I haven't used that input so far and the TIVO will get me back into HDMI. Thanks for all of your help and I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Last edited by PaulJiv; 27-Jul-2011 at 5:49 AM.
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Old 27-Jul-2011, 10:15 AM   #10
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

My thoughts on the Sony. Older digital tv's tuners are not as good at selecting and locking in on digital channels. The main reason is multipath (reflected signals) bouncing off of things in the attic or buildings , trees , mountains , ect. the older digital tuners are not as good as newer tuners at filtering out multipath. When the antenna is turned to a different direction the main signal can become stronger and the reflected signals are weaker because the antenna is turned away from the strong multipath. Tv antennas like elbow room with nothing crowding in the 'view' of the transmitting antennas. Yes I know the Tv is not that old , it looks like the manufacture date is 2007/2008. A tag/sticker on back of the Sony should have manufacture date. And also it can be a defective tuner/tuning circuits. Also grounding the coax lead in with a coax grounding block to electric service ground can help clear up the signal. The foil shield and shield wires of the coax pick up unwanted signals and the (center wire - the signal carrying wire) receives the unwanted signals from the foil shield and shield wires. A coax grounding block will direct the unwanted signals to ground.
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Old 28-Jul-2011, 2:27 AM   #11
PaulJiv
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Thank you for all of your advice. Do you recommend installing the grounding block in the attic? or in my basement? so closer to the antenna or closer to the TV. Either way it shouldn't be difficult to install and get a proper ground.
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Old 28-Jul-2011, 5:14 AM   #12
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

The best place for actual ground is the electric service ground. The part of the coax that is grounded with a coax grounding block is the coax foil shield and shield wires. Grounding the coax foil shield and shield wires directs interfering signals to ground. Some houses and many newer houses will have a separate ground wire running through attic to electric service ground and some houses will also have a separate ground wire running through the basement to electric service ground. Having a choice of where to put the coax grounding block when a antenna is in the attic , I will put the coax ground block in the attic close to the antenna. And if the coax enters the house at the location of the house electric service the coax ground block can be put there and connected to electric service ground.

Last edited by John Candle; 31-Jul-2011 at 1:13 AM.
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Old 29-Jul-2011, 8:14 PM   #13
PaulJiv
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I have installed a grounding block in the attic run the wire down and out the garage and attached to the main home service ground next to the power meter. I have installed the TIVO Premier box on the Sony Tv and hooked up to the HDMI. I run the setup goes through and detects channels. After going through setup I select 2.1 for cbs the TIVO box will detect the channel. There is an error message that pops up there is a problem with the antenna signal. I am new to the TIVO menu options but there is a setting where you can go in and see the signal meter. I enter the setup menu and see the info. Signal strength is about 90 on the low and 93 on the high. There is another option where you can see the signal and it brings up a meter. When I go into this portion of the test it will read average signal then display the peak. I am 92 solid green. Here is what is confusing to me. When I am in this portion of the menu the channel will display and I can see the picture in the background. When you exit the signal test and attempt to go back to 2.1 message problem with the antenna signal.

Edit: It would appear that there is a 2.1 and several frequencies. I am not sure what the frequencies are but it appears I just need to edit the dead frequencies out.

Last edited by PaulJiv; 29-Jul-2011 at 9:15 PM.
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Old 31-Jul-2011, 12:09 AM   #14
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KUTV , I found that KUTV is transmitting on Real UHF channel 34. The real channel is 34.1 and 34.2. What shows on the Tv screen is 2.1 and 2.2. Digital Tv has digit sub channels , more then one Tv channels can be in the - digital stream - and will be received by the Tv or TIVO as separate Tv channels. On the Tv screen they will be displayed as 2.1 and 2.2 even though the real transmitted channels are 34.1 and 34.2. To better understand why , read , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. According to Wikipedia the main digital channel is CBS the second digital channel is MyNetwork Tv / This Tv. I recommend calling KUTV , ask for engineering department , ask if transmission problems are happing with the digital subchannels , explain what is happening with your situation. Most engineering departments are very happy to exchange information with those that are receiving there transmissions , believe it or not , it helps them understand the technical issues of the signal that is being received and it helps you understand more about digital Tv. Digital Tv transmission and reception is still new and believe it or not the bugs are still be worked out.

Last edited by John Candle; 31-Jul-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 1-Aug-2011, 5:43 PM   #15
Dave Loudin
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Please refer to rabbitears.info for the latest on subchannels and translators. So not trust sources like Wikipedia.
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