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Old 20-Aug-2017, 3:33 PM   #1
2CfreeTV
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 12
I need help getting better reception in NY

My TV Fool:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a49ecf0e956c

I'm currently using a ClearStream 2V "indoors" with an antenna amp. installed. It's connected to an AB Switch for Antenna & Cable.

I "don't have the option" to mount any antenna outside.

I want all the channels I currently get. But I'm having trouble keeping Ch6 coming in. While Ch14 has its days when it comes in ok, and others where it doesn't come in at all.

How do I improve my reception of Ch6 & Ch14? Do I need a separate antenna to receive either of those channels? If so, which kind?
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Old 20-Aug-2017, 5:48 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,352
Welcome back to the forum, 2CfreeTV

Thank you for the signal report. Your old report is no longer on the tvfool server.
Quote:
I'm currently using a ClearStream 2V "indoors" with an antenna amp. installed
You have a previous thread where we covered your reception problem pretty well.
How do I get my CS2V Antenna set right?
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15358

It would have been better if you had stayed with the original thread instead of starting a new thread, so that we wouldn't have to hunt for your background information.

Have you made any changes since then?

Where "indoors" is the antenna located, still in the S facing window for your SW signals?
Quote:
It's tabled mounted indoors facing out a South side window. It's currently at a Southeastern angle. I'd say pointed in the general direction of HVCC.
Why is it aimed SE?

What amp are you using, the RCA Digital Signal Amplifier?
Quote:
So it looks like I'm sticking to the RCA Digital Signal Amplifier.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Digit...ennas/31393726
Which looks like the RCA AMP1450R, which is not a very good amp. They don't even give the specs for it.
https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Digital-A.../dp/B004HB2X4Y

WRGB CBS on real channel 6 requires an antenna that is much longer than the "V" dipole of your C2V antenna for best reception, because it is a VHF-Low channel.

It is the real channel number that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51

The virtual channel number (like 5.1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays.
Quote:
How do I improve my reception of Ch6 & Ch14? Do I need a separate antenna to receive either of those channels? If so, which kind?
WRGB and WYBN are the channels you were having trouble with before. If you haven't made any improvements, then it is to be expected that you will still be having trouble with them. You will need to upgrade you antenna system to even have a chance to improve your reception of those two difficult channels.

In order to even try for WRGB, you have to solve two problems.

The fist problem is the antenna. You can try a twin lead folded dipole for Channel 6:



The center frequency for channel 6 is 85 MHz.
5540/85 = 65.2 inches for length of folded dipole

The second problem with channel 6 is FM interference. WRPI FM is only 1 mile away and is strong enough to interfere with the reception of WRGB, as mentioned by Tower Guy in your previous thread.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/d...b/Radar-FM.png

Most FM filters would make channel 6 much weaker, but an old Radio Shack filter is designed to make the FM signals weaker without doing a lot of harm to channel 6.



The red line is the Radio Shack FM filter that is designed to spare channel 6 while making the FM signals weaker.

If you can't find the Radio Shack FM trap, you will need to order a custom made filter.

If you can get the folded dipole and FM filter to improve the reception of channel 6, you can use another A/B switch to change antennas, or find a HLSJ VHF-High/VHF-Low Combiner that will combine the folded dipole with your C2V.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 20-Aug-2017 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 20-Aug-2017, 10:28 PM   #3
rabbit73
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,352
WYBN will also be difficult. It is more than 50 dB weaker than your strongest signals.

A C2V indoors just isn't good enough.

You need an antenna with more gain, in a better location, and with a good preamp for WYBN. As ADTech said in your previous thread:

Quote:
Your odds of reliable reception of that station are very poor unless you go to a substantially upgraded system. It's a lower power (15 k) station with a directional transmitting antenna located 40 miles away that only sends 9.5 kW in your direction. Unfortunately, there's another mountain peak right in front of Windham Mtn where their transmitter is located which effectively shadows their signal from the direction of Troy. If you click on the call letters for WYBN-LD on your chart, a new tab should open that illustrates the path profile for that station. You'll have to decide how much additional effort (expense) is justified in an attempt to improve reception of that station.
I couldn't have said it any better.

__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 22-Aug-2017 at 1:31 AM.
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Old 21-Aug-2017, 2:43 PM   #4
2CfreeTV
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Posts: 12
Are these what you are talking about?
**Normally it's frowned upon to bring back old threads. That's why I posted a new thread. Also Ch6 has been coming in great for quite a while like a year and a half. Within the past week it started having issues.

Are these what you are talking about?

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/371904355665

How do I connect them to improve my signals?
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Old 21-Aug-2017, 5:31 PM   #5
rabbit73
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,352
Quote:
Normally it's frowned upon to bring back old threads. That's why I posted a new thread.
What is frowned upon is tacking your problem on the end of the thread of another forum member, which you didn't do.

If you start another thread for your same problem, we either have to ask for the details all over again, or hunt for the old thread. This takes a lot longer to try to solve the problem.

The most efficient helpful way is to add your new questions and information about the same problem to the original thread, which keeps it all together in the same thread.
Quote:
Also Ch6 has been coming in great for quite a while like a year and a half. Within the past week it started having issues.
OTA signals constantly vary in strength. Trees and buildings can pop up in the signal path. Your reception equipment can fail. Changes can be made to your home, like a metal screen on a window which will block signals. WRGB might be having trouble with its transmitter.
Quote:
Are these what you are talking about?
yes

Quote:
How do I connect them to improve my signals?
First try this test, without the C2V, to see if you can get ch6 OK:

CH6 ANT > FM Trap > TV

then try this:

CH6 ANT > FM Trap > preamp > power inserter > TV

If that works, then try this:

Code:
              C2V > 
                   \
                  HLSJ > preamp > power inserter > TV
                   /
CH6 ANT > FM Trap >
If NBC 12 and Fox 7 aren't doing well, try this:

Code:
    C2V > 
         \
        HLSJ > FM trap > preamp > power inserter > TV
         /
CH6 ANT >
Please consider this an experiment; I am not able to give you a guarantee.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 21-Aug-2017 at 7:11 PM.
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Old 22-Aug-2017, 5:15 PM   #6
2CfreeTV
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 12
These are all the OTA channels I "get" or "could get".

All channels come in fine except those marked with * or **.

*Minor Issues
**Lots of Issues

WRGB:
6.1 CBS*
6.2 TBD*
6.3 Comet*
WTEN:
10.1 ABC
10.2 GetTV
10.3 Justice Network
WNYT:
13.1 NBC
13.2 ME-TV
13.3 Heroes & Icons
WYBN:
14.1 Buzzr*
14.2 The Family Channel*
14.3 TuffTV*
14.4 France24*
14.5 RevN*
14.6 RetroTV*
14.7 LATV*
14.8 ThisTV*
WMHT:
17.1 PBS
17.2 CREATE
17.3 World
17.4 PBS Kids
WXXA:
23.1 FOX
23.2 OTB
23.3 LAFF
WCWN:
45.1 CW
45.2 Charge!
45.3 CBS
WNYA:
51.1 MyTV4
51.2 AntennaTV
51.3 Decades
WYPX:
55.1 ION
55.2 Qubo
55.3 ION Life
55.4 Shop
55.5 QVC
55.6 HSN
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