Which antenna? (ClearStream4 C4 or ???) Need a pre-amp?

[jbrams]

Hi TVfool folks!
We just moved to Benicia, California and are looking to get an antenna mounted on our roof because the indoor reception is miserable.

Here's a link to our TV Fool report (corrected! thanks!)

My current antenna is a two bow tie sale item from Radio Shack (bow ties are not wires but solid pieces of metal that look like bow ties - not sure that's the same). With this antenna mounted on stand in my backyard facing South I get several channels, mostly with very limited power signals.

I'm considering getting the Antennas Direct Clearstream4 C4 with a roof mount on a 30" mount (or on the prior owners' Dish post).

I am not sure if I will need a pre-amp (like the Channel Master 7777).

There would be two connectors before it gets to our TV - one at the wall wart, one between the antenna and the wall wart.

There are channels to our North East (Sacramento area) and to our South (San Francisco area) - there is a tall hill the the East so the San Francisco channels are the most likely suspects for reception.

Please give me your recommendations on which antenna I should get and whether or not to get a pre-amp. Thanks a million!

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by jbrams

We just moved to Benicia, California and are looking to get an antenna mounted on our roof because the indoor reception is miserable.

Here's a link to our TV Fool report

Um, the tvfool link you provided is for Houston, TX, not Benicia, CA. Do you have another tvfool link for your new location?

[jbrams]

Corrected it - thanks a million for catching that!!!

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by jbrams

I'm considering getting the Antennas Direct Clearstream C4.

That's not going to work. The C-4 is a UHF only antenna. You have three VHF stations from SF.

Consider the Winegard HD7698P with an AP-8700 preamp.

[jbrams]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

That's not going to work. The C-4 is a UHF only antenna. You have three VHF stations from SF.

Consider the Winegard HD7698P with an AP-8700 preamp.

Sorry I'm so new at this, but which three are from SF?

I see
KGO-TV (7.1)
KNTV-TV (11.1)
KTVJ-LP (36.1)

Is that right?

If so, bummer - 7 and 11 are major net work channels (ABC and NBC) that would be a priority to receive. Channel 36.1 isn't a priority but it'd be nice

So it seems I will new a UHF and VHF antenna. However, I'd like to avoid one as large as the HD7698P is possible.

Would the Channel Master 4228HD be sufficient? Would it make a difference if it had a pre-amp?

Any alternatives with VHF and UHF that are smaller than the HD7689P that would be adequate? The VHF channels at issue seem like they are not going to take too much to pick up if that helps.

Thanks again!

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by jbrams

However, I'd like to avoid one as large as the HD7698P is possible.

KGO is on channel 7
KNTV is on channel 10

The other option is two antennas, one for VHF and one for UHF. The VHF antenna can be either a Winegard YA1713 or Antennacraft Y10-7-13. The UHF antenna could be a C4, any of the 8 bay UHF antennas or a 91XG. Use a Winegard AP-2870 preamp with the dual antennas.

You can stack them on a single 10' mast.

If you really want KTVJ, it's on channel 4 and in a unique direction. There are no small antennas that would get it and the SF VHF stations. That leaves you with a third antenna such as the Antennacraft CS600, or a VHF only antenna such as the HD5030 that's even bigger than the HD7698P.

[jbrams]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

The other option is two antennas, one for VHF and one for UHF. The VHF antenna can be either a Winegard YA1713 or Antennacraft Y10-7-13. The UHF antenna could be a C4, any of the 8 bay UHF antennas or a 91XG. Use a Winegard AP-2870 preamp with the dual antennas.You can stack them on a single 10' mast.

Though I'm not under a restriction about antenna size, I do have relatively close neighbors who are above my house on a hill ... I'd like to avoid creating an eyesore with a large antenna or a particularly tall mast or multiple antennas. I think this may be possible because my smaller immitation DB2 type antenna was able to draw down most these channels when mounted outside about 4 feet off the ground ... so I'm really hoping that a much more substantial antenna with more triple the height will do the trick ... it's a matter of which is the right one for my area (thanks for helping me narrow it down folks!)

Ideally, would like a solution like the C4 because it's relatively small and no much more obtrusive than a Dish Network or DirectTV dish.

Do you have an opinion as to any smaller antennas I should consider to get UHF and VHF channels? What about the Antennacraft HBU33 or Channel Master 2020

[/quote]If you really want KTVJ, it's on channel 4 and in a unique direction. There are no small antennas that would get it and the SF VHF stations. That leaves you with a third antenna such as the Antennacraft CS600, or a VHF only antenna such as the HD5030 that's even bigger than the HD7698P[/QUOTE]Actually, with my tiny two bow-tie antenna from Radio Shack I'm able to get channels 4.1 and 5.1 just standing the antenna on a chair in my front yard facing South-West, so I'm assuming I won't have a problem with the roof mounted improved antenna, but I see what you're talking about. Thanks for the heads up!

So I guess my question is,
Which UHF/VHF antenna (and pre-amp) ...

• ... is under 6 feet
• ... will give me a good chance of pulling in San Francisco channels:
• ... ... Priority channels:2.1 (Fox), 5.1 (CBS), 7.1 (ABC), 9.1 (PBS), 11.1 (NBC), 44.1 (CW)
• ... ... Lower priority: 4.1 (KRON), 20.1 (KOFY), and 36.1

?

[mtownsend]

Since you are in between Sacramento and San Francisco, you have access to either market or both.

Going after both markets will make things more difficult.

Can you live with just SF channels or just Sacramento channels?



If we ignore KTVJ-LP (ch 4), then you can go with either the Antennacraft HBU family of antennas or the Winegard HD769xP family of antennas. Your choice of small, medium, or large versions of these antennas depend on how far down into the "red" channels you want to go.

The biggest versions of these antennas will probably give you reliable reception on stations with NM numbers down to about -5 dB if you have a pre-amp, and maybe 0 dB without. These are very rough estimates, of course, and your actual performance will depend on a lot of things like length of cable run, number of splits, trees/buildings/other obstacles in the environment, weather conditions, etc. If you choose a smaller antenna, you risk losing more of the channels toward the bottom of the list or at least more frequent breakups/dropouts on some of the channels.

There's no sure-fire way to tell how good/bad things will be until you try it. In the interest of minimizing the number of trial-and-error iterations, most people choose to go with the larger/safer option first (if they can get away with it). No setup will ever be completely 100% perfect (no pixellation, no dropouts) all of the time. Big antennas help you avoid viewing disruptions as much as possible.



Again, you can only get the channels from one metro or the other depending on which way you point the antenna. If you really want both metros, you're either looking at installing a rotator or an A-B switch. Combining two antennas (each pointed at a different metro) into one feed will probably not work very well. This would reduce the effective gain you get from each antenna, and will probably result in you losing most of the weaker channels.

[jbrams]

Originally Posted by mtownsend

Can you live with just SF channels or just Sacramento channels?

Just SF: hill to my east means too much interference to get channels to from Sacramento.

If we ignore KTVJ-LP (ch 4)

No problem - not a priority channel.

then you can go with either the Antennacraft HBU family of antennas or the Winegard HD769xP family of antennas. Your choice of small, medium, or large versions of these antennas depend on how far down into the "red" channels you want to go.

Okay - bigger is better. But I'm hoping to minimize any potential eyesores for my neighbors ... any of these antennas clock in at under 7 feet long (boom) and have good reviews or known to be particularly good models in any TVFools' experience?

I'm currently leaning toward:
-Winegard HD7594P (65" boom) - $60 shipped from Amazon.com
-With a pre-amp (channel master 7777 or something different like the Winegard AP-8700 U/V?)
-On a minimal outdoor mount/mast (will this 75cm J-mount/mast work?)

That would cost $117 and should do the trick (assuming the shorter antenna can get it done), right?

Thanks again and again!

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by jbrams

Okay - bigger is better. But I'm hoping to minimize any potential eyesores for my neighbors

Of course, that's your prerogative, but honestly, I don't think you need to worry on behalf of your neighbors too much. When they hear how much money you're saving by not paying for cable/satellite, they'll understand and may even want to do the same.

There is also the FCC Over The Air Reception Devices rule (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html), which is a federal law that says everybody has the right to erect an antenna for OTA service, and it supersedes and landlord, HOA, city, county, or state restrictions (except for a small number of special cases) that might try to prevent you from doing so.

Yes, there can be the initial shock of seeing something on the roof that wasn't there before. But I think you will find that after that initial shock wears off, people actually tend to ignore these kinds of things.

any of these antennas clock in at under 7 feet long (boom) and have good reviews or known to be particularly good models in any TVFools' experience?

Both the HBU-x and HD769xP line of antennas have been known to work well, so I can recommend either one. Older models of Winegard antennas have been known to have a great lifespan. These newer models are too new to say much about their longevity, but there do not appear to be any significant problems with construction quality.

I'm currently leaning toward:
-Winegard HD7594P (65" boom) - $60 shipped from Amazon.com
-With a pre-amp (channel master 7777 or something different like the Winegard AP-8700 U/V?)
-On a minimal outdoor mount/mast (will this 75cm J-mount/mast work?)

Yes, that should work.

With any pre-amp, just make sure to find a model with a low Noise Figure specification. Good amps should have a Noise Figure of 3 dB or less. Both of the amps you mentioned should be fine.

With the J-mount, I have two concerns:

1) Can it hold the antenna clear of your house? The mast clamp on the antenna is roughly located in the middle of the boom. That means the mast needs to be several feet away from your house in order to provide space for the antenna elements and boom (and perhaps have enough room to rotate the antenna a bit). It might not be just a simple matter of pulling the J-mount's mast away from the house either, because this might cause the antenna to point into the ground. You want to have the antenna pointed at the horizon in the direction of the transmitters.

2) Can the active area in front of the antenna be kept clear of other objects as much as possible? You'll want to avoid aiming the antenna such that the main lobe of the antenna pattern cuts across the roof or other nearby objects. Objects that are too close to the antenna's frontal area might alter the antenna's RF characteristics. Things behind the antenna are less critical, so it may be OK if the antenna is pointed away from the building.



As alternatives, you may want to consider a chimney mount (which leaves no holes at all) or a wall/eave mount that lets you use a longer vertical mast that extends above your roof line.