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Old 22-Oct-2012, 1:57 PM   #1
PeteyMcp
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Need Help with Selection

I've decided it's time for me to dump my basic cable and go OTA. I'm hoping someone could recommend an antenna and answer a couple of basic questions:

I'd prefer an attic install, but more importantly, I'd like clear reception, should I absolutely go to a roof mount?

We are surrounded by trees, but certain directions are less dense. Does a single tree cause a problem, or is only if you're pointing in the direction of a forest?

Here's the info: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df9840a08f764

Any help/input is welcome and appreciated!

Brian
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 3:05 PM   #2
signals unlimited
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Full reception DTV antenna system

Yes, even one tree will reduce but not stop the stronger stations on your report. For reception of the weaker stations to your NE, you need to be in the clear in that direction if possible.

Outside above your roofline will be best.

You have channels in all bands (UHF/HighVHF/LowVHF), so I recommend you install a Winegard 8200U all channel antenna with a WInegard AP8700 pre-amplifier.

Reception from all directions on your report requires the use of a rotor or multipul antennas. I recommend you install a Channel Master 9521 rotor.

Last edited by signals unlimited; 22-Oct-2012 at 3:07 PM. Reason: part number
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 3:27 PM   #3
No static at all
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I don't see any receivable low band stations? Wouldn't a Winegard 7698 be a better choice.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 4:10 PM   #4
teleview
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Your location Does Not have receivable Tv stations in all 3 channel bands.

The VHF low band channels are 2 thru 6.

WLBZ channel 2 with a signal strength of minus -3.8 NM(dB) , is 106.5 miles away , Will Not be received.

WGCI-LD channel 4 with a signal strength of minus -14.5 NM(dB) , is 73.3 miles away , Will Not be received.

The HD8200U is WAY TO MUCH antenna for your location.

No antenna rotator is required.

_____________________________________________


The other 2 Tv channel bands are ,

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

Your location has receivable Tv stations channels in the Channel band of ,

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

__

For reception of the Digital Tv stations/channels in the Green and Yellow reception zones of the Current Plus Pending Applications at your location.

Install a ANT751 antenna aimed at about 360 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

As always the ANT751 antenna has some forward signal gain and is not a very directional antenna and Will receive the Tv stations to the , north , north west , south west , south , north east.

http://www.solidsignal.com , has a ANT751 antenna with a J type antenna mount , low dollars.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a common simple 2 way splitter.

For 3 or 4 Tv's connected use a Channel Master CM3414 distribution amplifier.

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

It is best to install a antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception.

At your location that is , north , north west , south west , south , north east.

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the Broadcast Tv Channels , sometimes named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels

Last edited by teleview; 9-Dec-2012 at 6:32 PM.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 4:23 PM   #5
signals unlimited
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You do have one low V possible. If that is of no value, the High VHF/UHF will work fine.

If you can just as easily handle the larger antenna, there is no harm and it will be there should any low VHF pop up.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 4:54 PM   #6
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Which low VHF is possible? Unless I'm missing something, Channel 2 looks to be impossible @ 106 miles away.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 4:59 PM   #7
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WMEA , WMED , WMNE , WCBB , are All the same PBS , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_P...asting_Network.

And there are No receivable low band Tv stations.

So there is No requirement for any type or kind of large antenna to receive the receivable Tv stations/channels.

Here is information about , WCSH and WLBZ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCSH.

A Tv antenna rotator is not required.

Last edited by teleview; 23-Oct-2012 at 7:08 PM.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 5:02 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input. If channel 2 is the only additional channel, I'm not sure I would need it since there is another NBC affiliate available.

Is there anyway to get the major channels (PBS, NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox) without having to use a rotor? I'm trying to keep this somewhat simple, so although I'm not opposed if it's necessary, I'm hoping to get away from it.

The other question I have has to do with the size. If I'm reading this right, these antennas are 14' long, is that correct? I've prepped my wife for an antenna, but I'm not sure I've prepped her for something of that size. Do I have any other options to reduce the size a bit without killing reception?

Again, I'm not trying to make something happen that is not possible, I'm just trying to see what my options are.

Thanks.

Brian
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 5:24 PM   #9
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You've got a handful of them right there in your backyard it seems. I'd guess you have a good amt of elevation changes around you since you seem to have towers in all different directions.

The further you can get from the trees, the better. I had oaks, pines and poplars around me that made it tough to tune consistently during the summer due to all the leaves, especially when the wind was blowing. They were just 20 ft from the house on the receiving side. It was a battle to tweak and tune with just two tower locations both of which were relatively close. Winter was much better reception-wise.

You got any antennas to play with? Rabbit ears or a old bowtie in that box of junk in the attic?! Hard to compare to a big aerial on the roof, but you can get an idea.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 8:14 PM   #10
PeteyMcp
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Thanks everyone. I think I'll give the RCA antenna a shot, that seems much more likely to get the approval of my wife. Plus, that setup won't hit the wallet quite as hard.

I should definitely install this on the roof, correct?

One other question, which will show you how little I know about television. I know these signals are digital, but are they all HD? Is that the same thing?

Thanks again to everyone.

Brian
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 8:29 PM   #11
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There's both digital and analog broadcasts out there. All your big networks will be digital. As for HD, you'll find channels, especially subchannels sometimes are not HD. And subchannels, take say, your old channel 9, it's now 9.1 for the main and 9.2, 9.3, etc for subchannels. And don't get confused by "HD" marketing. An old 1982 rooftop antenna would work fine today. There's no requirement for an antenna to be HD compatible.
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Old 22-Oct-2012, 9:07 PM   #12
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Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception is --> Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception.

HD is --> one part <-- of Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception.

HD is picture resolutions of , 720P , 1080i , 1080P.

There is also the standard definitions of , 480i and 480P , picture resolutions.

Most Digital Tv's will display the information of the resolution of the picture that is being shown.

There is some 60 + years of the Original Analog standard of 480i that is shown on tv from the past.

With digital processing , much of the 480i from the past is 'cleaned up' for a better picture.

Many people are hung up on the word HD High Definition , it's , HD this and HD that and HD , HD , HD , HD , like a mantra chant.

The Most Important part of Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception is --> Digital shows a Nice Clear Picture.

Clearer then cable and satellite.

Here is a challenge for you that was popular conversation several years ago when Digital Broadcast Tv was new , see if you can see any difference in the picture clarity of , 720P , 1080i , 1080P.

_____________________________________________________

Yes the ANT751 is going Above the Roof and yes it is best to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception and that includes your own house.

Last edited by teleview; 23-Oct-2012 at 6:41 PM.
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Old 24-Oct-2012, 1:05 AM   #13
PeteyMcp
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Thanks again for the input.

For the trees, the direction I need to aim definitely has trees. In order to mitigate the effects of the trees, do I need to attempt to get the antenna above the trees (not possible), or is there some way to tell from the reports what the incident angle between the antenna and the trees would need to be?

I can move away from the trees to the other end of the house to add some distance and decrease the angle, and I can definitely try to increase the height either through an eave mount or a chimney mount. But if I know what minimum angle would give me the best reception, I have a starting point.

How tall of a mast is practical for the installation?

Brian
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Old 24-Oct-2012, 6:25 AM   #14
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The best way to test reception is to temporary mount the antenna at different locations. Start with what looks like a good location.

The tvfool radar plot shows the the directions of the Tv transmitters.

As to antenna height , higher is usually better.

As to the height of the mast pipe , above the antenna mount , the target number is , 10 feet or more mast pipe above the mount will require guy wires.

I avoid guy wires , it is better to have a taller actual mount , that way no guy wires.

However this information about , higher , higher and higher --> Does Not Mean <-- that it is 100% certain that the antenna does need to go higher , it is simply information about going higher.

Start with this action --> Start with what looks like a good location <-- for the antenna.

I start by looking for the easy location that also takes in to consideration the reception situation.

'You know' , like the directions of the transmitters and obstructions that are in the way.

And yes it is a good idea to move the antenna away from trees.

Trees get a -->great satisfaction<-- beating up antennas.

And aiming a antenna in to a thick dense tree that is a few feet away is not a good idea for reception.

Yes the reception situation is better if the tree is - skinny tree - with not much to it.

As to incident angle , this is a situation that is best learned buy you looking at and evaluating distances and angles , (going off the deep end into math is not required) , and trying the antenna reception at the location/s.

Most likely , the goal is to get reliable reception , not all out - pull out all the stops maximum reception.

Last edited by teleview; 24-Oct-2012 at 4:09 PM.
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Old 5-Dec-2012, 8:30 PM   #15
PeteyMcp
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So I've finally hot the Antenna installed, it's an RCA-751R installed above my roof, roughly 25 feet above the ground. It is wired as directly as possible to the only TV we have. There is a grounding block and a single splice connector, but other than that, it's direct. I had the TV search for OTA channels, and came back with quite a few. I get FOX (23.1), PBS (10.1) ABC (8.1) CW (51.1) MyN (35.1), plus a couple other stations. However, I'm not receiving NBC (6.1) or CBS (13.1). They appear to be similar strength signals, and similar directions, the NBC tower is right next to the ABC tower. Not have these channels is a deal breaker for my wife.

Any ideas on what might be happening here and how to fix?
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Old 5-Dec-2012, 10:12 PM   #16
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WAF is important! ;-)

So what direction does the 751 point to now? I assume you were able to tune NBC & CBS by turning the antenna towards a NW direction? You typically have to work to find the sweet spot for a single antenna. If your TV has a signal strength indicator, that can help you. Typically you want 70% or better.

As for why you aren't seeing NBC when it's close to ABC, the main difference is the broadcast frequency of Ch 8 vs Ch 6. On the chart, Ch 6 NBC is broadcast on UHF 44 (aka, Real 44). Ch 8 ABC is on VHF 8. Those signals are a a good ways apart on the scale. If you compare it to audio, it's kinda like a tweeter vs a woofer - you can hear the woofer from the kid driving past you well before you can hear his tweeter. So there has to be two different parts of your antenna that work to tune each of those. That doesn't help you fix it, but I hope it helps you understand it more.
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Old 5-Dec-2012, 11:42 PM   #17
teleview
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WCSH-DT REAL UHF channel 44 , virtual number (6.1) NBC.

And

WGME-DT REAL UHF channel 35 , virtual number (13.1) CBS.

Are both more toward the north west , it is Ok to turn the ANT751 antenna more toward the north west.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Tv antenna aiming is not 100% plug and play.

Many reception situations require adjustment of the the aim and location of the antenna for best reception.

This is normal , it is the way it is.

I recommend aim the ANT751 more toward the north west.

And do a double channel rescan.

Digital Tv tuners can develop , Digital Glitches , that are not cleared out with a simple channel scan.
http://www.fcc.gov/rescan.html.

Adjust the antenna aim for strongest reception of , NBC and CBS.

Most Digital Tv's have a built in signal strength meter , and some digital Tv's also have a built in signal quality meter.

Also the ANT751 needs to be at a location that has the least amount to no amount obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own house.

The directions of reception at your location are , north east , north , north west , south west , south.

Trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing and blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

All coax and couplers and grounding blocks and matching transformer (balun) are suspect of being bad.

As a test , I recommend install a new matching transformer (balun) to the ANT751 antenna and run a new Loooong coax from the matching transformer directly to the Tv.

This is all a normal process of finding possible problems of the antenna system.

Tv antenna set up and reception is not 100% plug and play.

A preamplifier may need to be installed for your reception situation , a Antennas Direct CAP-19 preamp.

However a preamp is not a substitute for fixing antenna aim and possible problems with the antenna system.

Driving a car is not 100% plug and play.

Shopping is not 100% plug and play.

Raising kids is not 100% plug and play.

Tv's are not 100% plug and play.
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Old 6-Dec-2012, 1:07 AM   #18
PeteyMcp
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This may seem silly, but I hadn't even thought of direction being the problem. I haven't adjusted it since I first positioned it. Truth be told, it's probably aimed a bit East of 360 magnetic North.

I ran through all of the channels we get, and ABC, which is near NBC and not too far off of CBS, has the lowest signal of all of the channels we're getting. It's about 40-45%. Since CBS, ABC, and NBC have the weakest available signal, and I should be able to aim the antenna further West to pick those up, and should still be able to pick up the stronger signals that are a bit further East.

Does that make sense? Or am I oversimplifying?

I'm going to work on direction tomorrow while my wife keeps and eye on signal and hopefully work this out.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 6-Dec-2012, 1:42 AM   #19
elmo
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Makes good sense to me. Reception is best at the direction of the boom. With the 751, it's pretty good towards the sides, but it does drop off.

Just a few tips from a guy who went up a ladder a few times. Note your signal strengths before you tweak so you can compare. Make sure your wife knows how to pull up signal strength on the TV. Take a phone w/you and put it on speaker. Hopefully it comes together for you!
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Old 7-Dec-2012, 7:30 PM   #20
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So I spent some time working on aiming today and didn't have great results. I was able to register a signal on NBC, but not enough to pick it up. I couldn't get anything for CBS. I occasionally lost FOX when working on picking up NBC and CBS. I definitely have trees around the house, but it's winter, and they're mostly leafless at this point. It's not overly dense either, and the trees aren't right up against the antenna.

Where do I go now? I could probably go up another 6 or 8 feet if that would help, but I'd have to but a new mast and mount. Do I look into an amp of some sort, or would that only work if I was getting a weak signal as opposed to no signal? Do I have to think about a bigger antenna?
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