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Old 11-Sep-2018, 6:28 PM   #1
ravindran_eee
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Question Winegard HD7694p - Help in receiving channels

After trying RCA antenna from Walmart, I bought Winegard one from Home Depot. Got it installed and ran coax directly to my TV. I did this to make sure there is nothing else interfering. Below are the problems,

NBC (4.1, 4.3), CBS (2.1) - No issues, great clarity and strength
FOX (5.1) - Some times picked up, but gets frozen often. Otherwise does not even get picked up
ABC (7.1) - Gets picked up, but gets frozen and unwatchable. Signal strength keeps going up and down
PIX11 (11.) - Gets picked up, but gets frozen and unwatchable. Signal strength keeps going up and down
MyN (9.1) - No issues, comes through properly
ION (31.1) - No issues, comes through properly

I really need to get ABC and FOX as well. I was hoping to watch NFL games . It would have been nice to get PBS (13.1) for the kids, but it's not a showstopper. Need some help in receive these other channels

Should I play around a bit more with the antenna direction? I have tried with and without RCA pre-amplifier. Preamp only makes signal strength of channels already picked up more stronger. I have mounted antenna on chimney with 5ft pole. Should I add another 5ft pole? Would that make any difference?

Here is my TVFool report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90381ca145ad41
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 8:39 PM   #2
jrgagne99
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Welcome to the Forum Ravindran

It would seem you have the correct antenna based on the channels you're after and their relative strengths at your location, as reported by your TVFool report (which may be erroneous for your location, others will undoubtedly chime in on that). Are you sure you're aimed at 120degrees magnetic? Are there any trees, houses, or hills directly in the way? How long is the coax, and is it new and what type (RG-6 or RG-59)? Which pre-amp did you try (RCA TVPRAMP1Z), was the antenna coax plugged into the right port (UHF/VHF) and was it set to combined?

I think it is definitely worth fiddling with the antenna height and aim, and possibly trying other locations on you roof (callled "walking the roof") before moving up to an antenna with more gain (e.g. the 7698p or an 8-bay UHF and MCM-2476). Best to do this with one guy on the roof and one at the TV for live feedback. A few degrees left or right and foot or two up or down can make a big difference sometimes. You're def. doing the right thing by keeping it simple at first (one coax run, one TV).
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 9:57 PM   #3
JoeAZ
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Despite the close proximity of your NYC stations, the signals are
not terribly strong. Most all your signals are reflected 1 edge or
2 edge signals. Because your location is blocked from receiving
Line of Sight signals, you are going to have to work a bit harder
to get reliable signals. As was mentioned previously, you need
to "walk the roof" to determine if there is a "sweet" spot where all
your stations come in properly. I think an amplifier/preamp might
be advisable in your situation as well as significantly increasing your
antenna height. Are there any trees or buildings directly East of
you??? They could be blocking what little signals reach your area.
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 11:40 PM   #4
Nascarken
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God day how high is the antenna frum looking at your tv Fool report should
Not have no problem with receive BROADCASTING TOWER and with the low band vhf!!
Channels you should have went with the Winegrud 8200u!! A better antenna for your location
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 1:52 PM   #5
ravindran_eee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgagne99 View Post
Welcome to the Forum Ravindran

It would seem you have the correct antenna based on the channels you're after and their relative strengths at your location, as reported by your TVFool report (which may be erroneous for your location, others will undoubtedly chime in on that). Are you sure you're aimed at 120degrees magnetic? Are there any trees, houses, or hills directly in the way? How long is the coax, and is it new and what type (RG-6 or RG-59)? Which pre-amp did you try (RCA TVPRAMP1Z), was the antenna coax plugged into the right port (UHF/VHF) and was it set to combined?

I think it is definitely worth fiddling with the antenna height and aim, and possibly trying other locations on you roof (callled "walking the roof") before moving up to an antenna with more gain (e.g. the 7698p or an 8-bay UHF and MCM-2476). Best to do this with one guy on the roof and one at the TV for live feedback. A few degrees left or right and foot or two up or down can make a big difference sometimes. You're def. doing the right thing by keeping it simple at first (one coax run, one TV).
Thank you! I have been a silent reader of this forum for a while before getting into antenna installation. It has been of immense help! I see so many knowledgeable folks. This is a great place!!

I did not use compass. I just looked at maps and saw the direction of towers and pointed it in that direction. Why would you say 120 degrees. I thought the towers were either 108 degrees or something like that. Yes, I am using RCA TVPRAMP1Z preamp. Yes, I am using combined port and did check that everything is setup properly. I feel it is working. Because it is making the signal of working channels even more stronger! Using RG-6 new coax cable

I am using chimney mount and don't want to do anything on my roof (spent lot of money on roof with other issues!!). It may not be an option for me to play around with location. I have another 5ft antenna pole. That will make it total 10 ft. I am planning to put it and play around with height and rotation to see if anything improves. I hope it would work! Wife is not too happy with all the time I am spending on roof
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 1:54 PM   #6
ravindran_eee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
Despite the close proximity of your NYC stations, the signals are
not terribly strong. Most all your signals are reflected 1 edge or
2 edge signals. Because your location is blocked from receiving
Line of Sight signals, you are going to have to work a bit harder
to get reliable signals. As was mentioned previously, you need
to "walk the roof" to determine if there is a "sweet" spot where all
your stations come in properly. I think an amplifier/preamp might
be advisable in your situation as well as significantly increasing your
antenna height. Are there any trees or buildings directly East of
you??? They could be blocking what little signals reach your area.
Yes, there are trees right in front of my house. I don't know how to post images. I will figure out and post one later from google maps. Unfortunately, the towers are in the direction of those trees. They have grown a lot over years. Yes, I am using RCA preamp.
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 2:11 PM   #7
jrgagne99
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Anything you can do to avoid the trees will help. Cut them down, raise the antenna, walk the roof, etc. Rabbit will probably post the pictures that show just how they can affect signal.

The towers are at a bearing of 120degrees magnetic (i.e. what a compass reads). 108 is the true heading (magnetic heading minus localized magnetic declination).

I feel your pain on not wanting to move the antenna if at all possible. Adding 5 feet of mast might help, it is difficult to say without pictures. If you do that, be careful of nearby wires and maybe consider adding guy-wires. Are the trees on your land? Maybe you could mount the antenna in the trees as I did, using them to your advantage instead of decrement? See my thread 'Reception Help in NH' for details. 40-foot man lifts can usually be rented for $200-$300. FWIW, I also spent countless hours working on my reception issues, DW was starting to get tired of it at the end too.

Last edited by jrgagne99; 12-Sep-2018 at 2:23 PM.
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 2:19 PM   #8
ravindran_eee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgagne99 View Post
Anything you can do to avoid the trees will help. Cut them down, raise the antenna, walk the roof, etc. Rabbit will probably post the pictures that show how they affect signal.
I wish I can cut them down They are in my neighbors house and then just like a dense forest.
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 2:20 PM   #9
ravindran_eee
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Another question I had is on the type of coax. I just bought the regular coax but RG6. Some people suggest to use quad shield and crimp connectors myself. Would that make much of a difference? There are no electrical lines near the coax.
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 2:40 PM   #10
Nascarken
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If you have trees it's up over them but if you can add 10ft to the ANTENNA and I suggest
In an channel master 7777AMP it will help pull them channels in
And if power lines are a problem IT'S the same thing up over them
Well good luck and be safe on the roof and look out for power lines when installing an ANTENNA.
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 2:51 PM   #11
ravindran_eee
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This is what I am talking about with trees



https://imgur.com/a/jHLZYto
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 3:49 PM   #12
jrgagne99
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Based on the 3D Google street view, it looks like the trees are tall, and less than 100 feet away, so additional height will likely be needed. Tilting the antenna up a few degrees might help. Frequency-specific hot-spots may exist on your roof, finding one that works for all frequencies of interest could be a challenge, but is possible. Only one way to find out....


Either that, or you could use the tree behind your neighbors house to the north. It looks to be much taller than the ones across the street. Maybe you could make a deal with him to put the antenna up in there then split the signal to both houses, you'd both get free TV. If you do that, put the pre-amp at the bottom of the tree for easy maintenance/replacement.

Quad shield and/or RG-11 is probably getting into the weeds. New RG-6 should be fine.
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 7:03 PM   #13
ravindran_eee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgagne99 View Post
Based on the 3D Google street view, it looks like the trees are tall, and less than 100 feet away, so additional height will likely be needed. Tilting the antenna up a few degrees might help. Frequency-specific hot-spots may exist on your roof, finding one that works for all frequencies of interest could be a challenge, but is possible. Only one way to find out....


Either that, or you could use the tree behind your neighbors house to the north. It looks to be much taller than the ones across the street. Maybe you could make a deal with him to put the antenna up in there then split the signal to both houses, you'd both get free TV. If you do that, put the pre-amp at the bottom of the tree for easy maintenance/replacement.

Quad shield and/or RG-11 is probably getting into the weeds. New RG-6 should be fine.
Thanks for taking a detailed look. I will play around by tilting the antenna a bit. And will play around with height as well. I don't know if I want to spend that much and try to work out such deals with neighbor. Thanks for the suggestion anyway!

Do you think any other antenna could perform better in my situation? Something that might work better with these trees blocking?
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Old 12-Sep-2018, 8:01 PM   #14
jrgagne99
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The 7698P might be worth a try, especially if you can buy one with a good return policy. The other equivalent option (in terms of gains) is an 8-bay such as the HDB8X or yagi like the HDB91X (for UHF) coupled to a 30-2476 (for VHF-hi). You already have the right pre-amp for combining those.
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Old 13-Sep-2018, 4:25 PM   #15
ravindran_eee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgagne99 View Post
The 7698P might be worth a try, especially if you can buy one with a good return policy. The other equivalent option (in terms of gains) is an 8-bay such as the HDB8X or yagi like the HDB91X (for UHF) coupled to a 30-2476 (for VHF-hi). You already have the right pre-amp for combining those.
Thank you. While I was thinking about another antenna, I am not sure if I can return the current one now. It has been out there in rain for few weeks and not sure if returns would be accepted. I am hoping to play around with height and tilting to get good reception with this Winegard antenna itself. Good to know the other options out there
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Old 13-Sep-2018, 4:27 PM   #16
ravindran_eee
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Originally Posted by Nascarken View Post
If you have trees it's up over them but if you can add 10ft to the ANTENNA and I suggest
In an channel master 7777AMP it will help pull them channels in
And if power lines are a problem IT'S the same thing up over them
Well good luck and be safe on the roof and look out for power lines when installing an ANTENNA.
Thank you! I will try to first add 5ft, which should make it 10 ft total. I might have to think of other ways of mounting or supporting the mast for additional 10 ft. I already have RCA preamp. Does this channel master provide better gain? I am not sure if my issue is in signal loss. The antenna itself is not picking up the channels. The antenna already seems to have good amount of gain.
Yes, I will be careful! There are no power lines over the roof.
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Old 13-Sep-2018, 5:13 PM   #17
jrgagne99
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Originally Posted by ravindran_eee View Post
Does this channel master provide better gain? I am not sure if my issue is in signal loss.
The CM-7777 has more gain than the RCA TVPRAMP1Z (30dB for the CM-7777 vs. 16/22 - VHF/UHF for the RCA), but it probably doesn't matter for your case. This is because of how a pre-amp works. It can only compensate for downstream losses between itself and the TV; it doesn't make the antenna capture more signal. The losses for 100 feet of new RG-6 are about 3 dB for VHF and 5 dB for UHF. Each coax split is another 3-4 dB, regardless of band. With a pre-amp, you actually loose about 3dB at the pre-amp itself, but you only pay the piper once. As long as the downstream losses aren't more than the pre-amp gain, they don't matter. Since you only have a single run of coax with no splitters, both pre-amps have more than enough gain to make up for your downstream losses.

IMO, the question you should be asking is which one has a lower SNR penalty. If memory serves, the noise figures for the CM and RCA pre-amps are both around 3 dB. There do exist low-loss pre-amps such as the Kitztech KT-200 that have a very low SNR penalty up front (0.5 dB instead of 3-ish) and still have plenty of gain for most home-owner applications (24 dB). That's what I use .
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Old 14-Sep-2018, 12:55 PM   #18
ravindran_eee
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Hey everyone.. happy Friday! I am excited for the weekend as I can go out and play around with antenna and hopefully figure out something to watch Football on Sunday

I had another weird observation in TVFool. When I actually reduced the height of antenna, the signal strength seems to improve! When I go beyond 100 ft, then many channels become LOS and it is a different story. But ordinary heights are not giving good strength. The lesser actually gives better strength! The only way to confirm this would be to bring the antenna down and I can try a shorter coax cable as well. But does it really make sense? Or TVFool becomes goofy with lower height?

3 Ft : http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038173a3db2c9
30 Ft: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038195ffeb24b
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Old 14-Sep-2018, 1:03 PM   #19
JoeAZ
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It certainly is worth a try. The TV Fool 1 edge and 2 edge reports such as yours are typically not as accurate as line of sight reports. Generally, lowering an antenna will give worse reception. Those nearby trees are your major obstacle to good
reception....
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Old 14-Sep-2018, 1:10 PM   #20
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When I actually reduced the height of antenna, the signal strength seems to improve! When I go beyond 100 ft, then many channels become LOS and it is a different story. But ordinary heights are not giving good strength. The lesser actually gives better strength!
The simulator is simply a mathematical construct. Such observations regarding the received antenna height are not going to be predictive (with any accuracy) of actual reception when making very slight changes.
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