Seeking More Gain in the Attic

[mikenh]

Luckily, the gable end of my attic faces east so the path from the broadcast towers near Portland,ME to my RCA ANT751 isn't through roofing shingles. Unluckily, when the trees are in leaf or in wet weather, I lose two channels.

My report is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aec73db0c777

I want to upgrade to receive my problem stations year round [Virtual 13.1 (NM35.4) and Virtual 10.1 (NM -2.2)] and hopefully to get Virtual 23.1 (NM-9.0).

I have enough room for a Winegard 7698P at 8 feet, and/or a separate UHF antenna. But, I don't know enough to be confident I'll improve things.

Suggestions and advice gratefully welcome, Mike

[GroundUrMast]

By putting the antenna in the attic, you are starting at a significant disadvantage.

The 7698 will be doing well to receive such signals if it's outside clear of obstructions... But anything smaller is unlikely to provide the results you're hoping for.

[Stereocraig]

The proper order of things, would be to mount the 751 on the roof, before spending any money.

If that doesn't cut it, I would then recommend mounting the 7698 on the roof.

I would never suggest any kind of indoor use, unless you can receive everything you need, by doing so. It's just too Chancey.

[StephanieS]

Hi Mikenh,

If RF 8 weren't in hi-vhf, this would be so much easier!

I also agree with GroundUrMast and Stereocraig regarding attic installations. With the signals you want, the only way you will have any success is with an outdoor mounting of the antenna. An attic installation will not net you any of your desired weak signals.

That said, with your desire to get real channels (RF) 10, 23 and 38 there are some possibilities. First, real channel 23 WPFO (FOX) is extremely weak. Reliable reception is going to require you having exceptional luck.

RF 10 and RF 38 on the other hand provide some better opportunities. RF 38 (CBS) ought to be pretty easy actually, for that see below.

The ANT751 while a nice little suburban antenna, with it you ought to see your line of sight signals while orientated to magnetic 83. The weak red shaded signals aren't what the ANT751 was built for even if mounted outdoors.

A Winegard 7698P mounted outdoors above your roof and clear of obstructions to magnetic 84 ought to receive ABC, NBC, CBS, CW and MyNetwork. I would not suggest a preamp in consideration for this antenna. NBC and ABC are putting a very good signal on you. A preamp would risk overloading your receiver.

PBS WCBB RF 10 is weak as well. At heading 84 you'll be within the beam of Winegard to know if you'll have reliable reception. If not reliable see below.

For alternate PBS service in the event of WCBB not decoding, I may add an Antennacraft Y10-7-13 (high vhf only antenna) as a secondary antenna pointing to magnetic 208. This would be for service from New Hampshire Public Television's WENH RF 11. If availing this option, I might add a RCA TVPRAMP1R on this antenna for best chance of reception. Make sure to connect the Y10-7-13 coax to the dedicated VHF input on the preamp. WMUR ABC RF 9 would be a signal to watch if it makes it to decoding levels.

If you just decide upon the Winegard 7698P orientated to magnetic 84, this is pretty straight forward with one coax coming off the roof.

If you add the Y10-7-13 mounted below (at least 4' spacing on the same pole) the 7698P, you'll have two coaxes running indoors feeding into a A/B switch. At the end of the Y10-7-13 coax coming off preamp install preamp power supply. A/B Switch is found here: http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-A-B-Sw..._src=17588969#

It's all about if you want to "be done with it" or you want to test and refine until you get most of the signals you are seeking. When you are in these weak signal areas with different paths, sometimes you have to get creative and settle for what you can get.

Good luck!

[mikenh]

StephanieS, thanks so much for your analysis. It's exactly what I needed.

I'll be going with a mast, especially since I have unavoidable tree trouble from the attic. In defense of attics, it was the best of all possible attics as the signal only had to pass through 1" of always dry wood.

I especially like the idea of going for New Hampshire Public Television's WENH RF 11, as I have only distant trees in that direction.

Thanks for your help.

[StephanieS]

Glad to help out.

I enjoy PBS as well. I have three separate PBS's I receive so I'm slightly spoiled, lol.

With the negative db signal strength of WCBB (-2.2), If I were installing the antennas at your location, I'd go in assuming I wouldn't see it when the Winegard 7698P goes up. If I see, then pleasant surprise. At my location, I have several negative db signals. I've never been able to decode any of them. Keep in mind this is with a Antennas Direct 91xg and a TVPRAMP1R.

My goal was for you to at least have a chance for a PBS. At 6.2db WENH is by no means a strong signal, but out of the three PBS's you may have a chance at, it's the one I'd try for first due to being the strongest.

If you wanted to do the system in stages, buy the 7698P, get it installed. Dial in reception. See if you get the results you want. If not and PBS is elusive, then go after WENH.

In weak areas, your actual signal strengths may vary a bit from your TVfool plot and may be better or worse.

Just have to get in there and start working with it!

Good luck and check back with a report.

Originally Posted by mikenh

StephanieS, thanks so much for your analysis. It's exactly what I needed.

I'll be going with a mast, especially since I have unavoidable tree trouble from the attic. In defense of attics, it was the best of all possible attics as the signal only had to pass through 1" of always dry wood.

I especially like the idea of going for New Hampshire Public Television's WENH RF 11, as I have only distant trees in that direction.

Thanks for your help.

[Johnnie]

StephanieS; I am curious as to why you recommended an A/B switch and two coax to mikenh? Why not a UVSJ combiner? http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ
I dislike using A/B switches unless I have no other options, thats just me. I would not want to run another seperate coax through the house either.

[StephanieS]

Hi Johnnie,

I would've have suggested a combiner like the Antennas Direct EU385CF-1s myself and perhaps a Antennas Direct DB8 instead of the 7896p, but we have a little problem in that high VHF NBC WMTW RF 8 is at magnetic 77. It is in that range of towers the OP wants to try for from magnetic 77 to 93. That is why the 7869p was recommended due to high-VHF and UHF signals being present from very good to weak signal strength. My thoughts were it was better to keep the 7698P at full reception ability for the following reasons:

1. The OP likely won't be able to run a preamp on the 7698P due to very good signals on RF 44 and RF 8. Overloading the receiver is a real possibility if attempting to run a preamp.

2. WENH is way outside at magnetic 208 the 7698P's beam if orientated at 84 magnetic.

3. Separate coaxes terminating at an A/B switch allow for a preamp with the Y10-7-13 and with RF 8 off the rear, the OP has a better chance at catching the PBS WENH since all PBS's are weak to extremely weak in this situation. This allows the OP to focus on specifically desired hi-VHF signals and allow the 7698P to work independently.

I hear what you are saying, it'd be so much easier to combine.

In the end though, combing the two antennas with high-VHFs desired for each antenna, made combing a no-go in this situation in my opinion.

Knock out RF 8, now we're talking about combing. However, a reliable RF 8 and NBC programming is one I'm certain the OP would want. Thus, I would say this is a "no other option" situation because any combing will likely yield a loss of a OP desired signal.

Cheers.