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Old 10-Jun-2015, 1:33 AM   #1
jvaldovi93550
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Channel 7 KABC Reception in Palmdale, CA

Hello,

I have a Winegard HD8200U TV Antenna mounted on a mast outside my house in Palmdale, CA. It is about 20 feet above the ground. I get most of the local channels clearly. However, according to my TV Fool report, I should be able to get Channel 7 KABC. I already tried adjusting the height and angle. Raising the antenna actually made the signal worse, which confuses me. My TV Fool Report is shown below. I have a Winegard LNA200 amplifier mounted on the mast. I spoke with a technical person at Channel 7. They say that their signal is not as strong as the TV Fool Report shows. Any suggestions on how to pick up Channel 7? Thank you.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...82306c55c20beb
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Old 10-Jun-2015, 10:37 AM   #2
No static at all
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You have a few suspect FM stations that may be causing issues with channel 7. Not sure if the FM trap is sufficient on that amplifier? Did you ever test reception with no amplifier & the antenna connected directly to 1 TV? (no splits)

Do you get the same results on more than one TV?
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Old 10-Jun-2015, 12:42 PM   #3
ADTech
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It's very rare for anyone in your area to actually get reception of the LA stations. The mountains do a terrific job of blocking the signals.

Quote:
They say that their signal is not as strong as the TV Fool Report shows.
TVFool's analysis does not include important variables such as transmitting antenna vertical pattern or tilt (mechanical or electrical). The TVFool simulation for areas north of the mountains should be treated as "For entertainment purposes only" instead of as a useful tool. You'll get whatever you get (or not). The engineering staff at KABC surely know more about their coverage than anyone else so listen to them.

Quote:
Raising the antenna actually made the signal worse, which confuses me.
Several possibilities:

1. You were getting a fortunate "ground bounce" signal that was reinforcing the primary signal at the lower height.

2. You moved the antenna to a different layer of the signal.

3. The antenna is now picking up an interfering signal more strongly at the higher level.

The noise figure on channel 7 of that amp is terrible, in the order of 5-6 dB. The FM filter comes in very late and is likely to admit the lowest FM frequencies which are the ones most likely to interfere with channel 7.
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Old 11-Jun-2015, 1:58 AM   #4
jvaldovi93550
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Channel 7 Reception

I had the antenna set up for a few weeks with no splitter before buying the amplifier. I did not get Channel 7 back then either.

Can anyone offer any recommendations for an amplifier that will better filter out the FM signals that may be interfering with my reception of Channel 7?

I have not tried the antenna on another TV. I only have one TV, but I am considering buying another one. Which types or brands of TV's get better reception?

Thank you all for your help.

Jose
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Old 11-Jun-2015, 3:45 PM   #5
rabbit73
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Quote:
I have not tried the antenna on another TV. I only have one TV, but I am considering buying another one. Which types or brands of TV's get better reception?
I have had good results with weak signals with my Sony TVs. I have a KDL22L5000, KDL32BX320, and a KDL32R400A. Each one has a tuner a little more sensitive than the previous one.

All three are able to add a channel after scan, and all three have a Diagnostics Screen that gives signal strength, SNR and Errors. SNR and Errors indicate signal quality, which is at least as important as signal strength with digital signals.

Sony KDL22L5000, bad signal:



Good signal:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg SonySigBad_1.jpg (159.7 KB, 394 views)
File Type: jpg SonySigGood_1.jpg (120.5 KB, 387 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-Jun-2015 at 5:50 PM.
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Old 11-Jun-2015, 5:04 PM   #6
ADTech
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Quote:
anyone offer any recommendations for an amplifier that will better filter out the FM signals that may be interfering with my reception of Channel 7?
You'd be better off with an external filter since none of the preamps I've tested, and I've tested most of the ones on the US market, will inadequately attenuate the bottom of the FM sufficiently.

You have two viable options, which you selects depends on how you wish to handle low-VHF, real channels 2-6.

If you don't care about any of those channels, use an HLSJ with the "LO" port capped with a 75 ohm terminator. You can cascade two of these in series on the input port of a lower-noise amplifier for more attenuation of signals below channel 7. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...HLSJ%29&q=hlsj

If you'd like to preserve channels 2-5 for future use (maybe), I'd use one or two of the FM filters that we carry in series at the amp's input. https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html

For a pre-amp, I'd recommend our PA18. Low noise, usually between 1.6 and 2 dB on high VHF at a modest price, under $50 street price. The Juice is a tiny bit (~0.2 dB) quieter, but I can't justify the price differential for that small of an improvement in NF. All the other consumer-priced pre-amps (under $50) are going to have noise figures of about 3 dB or more on high VHF. The absolute quietest pre-amp I've tested was one of the Kitztechs (KT200, IIRC) that measured around .7 dB on high VHF and topped out around 1.0 or 1.1 dB up in UHF.
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Old 11-Jun-2015, 6:02 PM   #7
rabbit73
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I'm inclined to agree with ADTech:
Quote:
The mountains do a terrific job of blocking the signals.
The signal path doesn't look very promising to me:



I don't have your exact address, but from an estimated address that gives a TVFOOL report very close to your report, an FMFOOL report doesn't indicate a threat from FM signals (but there are other types of interference that affect TV reception):



TVFOOL report from estimated location:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...82306fb06476ac

I don't think you need an FM filter, but it's worth a test because they are inexpensive.

I agree with ADTech's preamp selection. However, the noise level on VHF-High at your location might be high which would reduce the SNR of channel 7.

I have one weak VHF-High channel that barely makes it to 15 dB SNR. Some days I get it, some days not, according to the noise level from electrical interference.

Did you ever get 7, or only once in a while poorly?

Have you done a successful tuner scan for 7 so that it is in the tuner memory, in case it shows up?

How is your reception of 11 and 13 from the same direction?

Are there any trees in the signal path from that direction?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KABCjvaldovi93550tTVF2.JPG (56.2 KB, 497 views)
File Type: jpg jvaldovi93550tvfFMest2.JPG (83.5 KB, 485 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-Jun-2015 at 6:55 PM.
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