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Old 3-Aug-2014, 11:37 PM   #1
photocdn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
Help with increasing reliability pls !

Hello Eveyone,

I'm new to OTA, having recently gotten a good deal on an Antennas Direct DB4, to which I also added a CM-7777 pre-amp. So far, things have been quite good, I am getting about 20 channels in all (list is below).

There are occasions where reception isn't good for some channels. My antenna is pointing 180 degrees magnetic (towards the USA) and I have had some trouble with my local channels and with Fox (Ch. 44), which is the weakest channel. It usually gets weaker late at night and cuts out, not sure why that is.

So given my location and setup, I'm looking for suggestions to increase the reliability and also for methods to troubleshoot a channel. I am tempted to think a second antenna pointing towards my local channels is what is needed, but I'm not sure and, I have read its quite difficult to do. I did get a DB8 and tried it as well, but it didn't seem to perform better than the DB4, it felt like the local channels weren't coming in as strong either, so I stuck with the DB4 (wider coverage is better in my case ?). I would love to get WVNY as well (ABC) but I think I would need a dedicated yagi for it...

I appreciate and suggestions or guidance !

Many thanks
Steven

My TV Fool report

Antennas Direct DB4 with CM-7777 pre-amp, 75ft+ cable run, 4 way splitter only 3 used, free slot is terminated.
Channels I am getting

2-1
3-1, 3-2
5-1, 5-2
6-1
10-1
12-1
15-1, 15-2
33-1, 33-2, 33-3, 33-4
35-1
44-1, 44-2
57-1, 57-2. 57-3

I should also add, after I had tested the DB8, and re-installed the DB4 I was having a really hard time with ch 6-1 (CBC) which I believe is the strongest signal around me. It would go from 92% down to 0, and bounce around up and down, cutting out. A few days later, I went up to adjust the antenna, and once everthing looked good, I zip tied the cable that runs from the balun to the pre-amp, keeping a rain loop, but no longer hanging straight down, it was closer to the antenna, closer to the mast. It wasn't putting a strain or anything on the cable, but just sort of "hugging" closer.

After that, I got zero channels - nothing came in at all. The channel scan couldn't detect a single thing. I went back up and cut the zip tie so the wire was hanging freely (still with a rain loop) but "standing off" the antenna and mast, and everything came back. Is this normal ? The wire must be kept away a certain distance from the antenna ?

And one final observation, I tested with the DB4, over my 75ft + cable run, no pre-amp direct to one TV and I get all the same channels listed above, but not Fox (ch44).

Many thanks again.
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 12:29 AM   #2
ADTech
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,842
This is the time of year for difficult reception over the border. It's normal.

You probably have a hairline crack in the circuit board inside the DB8 combiner. If the problem comes back, contact customer service for a repair kit.

A 7777 has way too much gain for your signal strengths if you aim the antenna to the west.
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 1:48 AM   #3
photocdn
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
This is the time of year for difficult reception over the border. It's normal.

You probably have a hairline crack in the circuit board inside the DB8 combiner. If the problem comes back, contact customer service for a repair kit.

A 7777 has way too much gain for your signal strengths if you aim the antenna to the west.
Hi ADTech, thanks for the reply. Just to be clear, it's the DB4 that gave me the odd behaviour with the zip tied wire.

When you say its a difficult time of the year for reception, do that mean as we head into autumn and winter, I can expect an easier time ? Is there anything else I could do to optimize my installation ?

Many thanks, very appreciated !
Steven
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 2:16 AM   #4
teleview
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+=>

For Improved reception of the , USA and Canada , Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels.

Install a , Antennas Direct , DB8e , current UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna.

Aim 1 panel at about , 227 degree magnetic compass direction.

Aim the other panel at about , 190 degree magnetic compass direction.

--------------------------------

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

As always , the antenna aim direction and antenna location can be adjusted for the best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv 's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

--------------------------------

For improved reception of.

WVNY-DT , Real VHF high band channel 13 , ABC.

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

Y10-7-13 VHF high band antenna for reception of channels 7 thru 13.

Aim the Y10-7-13 antenna at about 180 degree magnetic compass direction.

Install the Y10-7-13 antenna about 3 feet below the DB8e antenna on the same antenna mast/pipe.

--------------------------------

The CM7777 is Too Strong a Amplifier for reception at your reception location.

Remove All Parts of the CM7777 preamplifier , Remove the Preamp Unit , Remove the Power Supply / Power Injector .

--------------------------------

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G221 preamplifier.

Connect the DB8e , UHF antenna to the , UHF connection of the 10G221 preamp.

Connect the Y10-7-13 VHF antenna to the VHF connection of the 10G221 preamp.

-------------------------------

Here are some and not all Above The Peak of the Roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html. Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html. Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) or ronard(2218) or ronard(2224) .

http://www.ronard.com

-----

Home Depot has , 10 foot 3 inch length , 1 and 1/4 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast/pipe .

-------------------------------

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.saveandreplay.com.

http://www.trentondistributors.com.

------------------------------

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

-----------------------------

As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is install the antennas at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own , attic , roof , building.

The directions of reception at your location are , South , South West , West.

Last edited by teleview; 4-Aug-2014 at 8:05 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 5:19 PM   #5
photocdn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
Hi Teleview, thanks very much for the detailed recommendations. I was wondering how you figure out the CM7777 is too strong for my location (so I know for myself) ?

Also, I had looked at the DB8e thinking it was the solution, but then found a lot of information about how multiple antennas can interfere with each other. I think there's even a thread you participated in regarding multipath issues ?

I just want to be sure it will be effective for me, as it looks like what I've already bought was wrong (I was lucky to be able to sell the DB8 at not too much of a loss).

Many thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
+=>

For Improved reception of the , USA and Canada , Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels.

Install a , Antennas Direct , DB8e , current UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna.

Aim 1 panel at about , 227 degree magnetic compass direction.

Aim the other panel at about , 190 degree magnetic compass direction.

--------------------------------

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

As always , the antenna aim direction and antenna location can be adjusted for the best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv 's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

--------------------------------

For improved reception of.

WVNY-DT , Real VHF high band channel 13 , ABC.

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

Y10-7-13 VHF high band antenna for reception of channels 7 thru 13.

Aim the Y10-7-13 antenna at about 180 degree magnetic compass direction.

Install the Y10-7-13 antenna about 3 feet below the DB8e antenna on the same antenna mast/pipe.

--------------------------------

The CM7777 is Too Strong a Amplifier for reception at your reception location.

Remove All Parts of the CM7777 preamplifier , Remove the Preamp Unit , Remove the Power Supply / Power Injector .

--------------------------------

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G221 preamplifier.

Connect the DB8e , UHF antenna to the , UHF connection of the 10G221 preamp.

Connect the Y10-7-13 VHF antenna to the VHF connection of the 10G221 preamp.

-------------------------------

Here are some and not all Above The Peak of the Roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html. Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html. Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) or ronard(2218) or ronard(2224) .

http://www.ronard.com

-----

Home Depot has , 10 foot 3 inch length , 1 and 1/4 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast/pipe .

-------------------------------

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.saveandreplay.com.

http://www.trentondistributors.com.

------------------------------

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

-----------------------------

As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is install the antennas at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own , attic , roof , building.

The directions of reception at your location are , South , South West , West.
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Old 4-Aug-2014, 7:01 PM   #6
teleview
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
+=>

The , http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

Web site has a Long Warning Information about using the CM7777 preamplifier in strong signal strength areas.

The reason for the Long Warning Information is.

We Live In The Amplifier Time Period Here On This Planet.

Amplify this Amplify That , Amplify and Amplify and Amplify and Amplify ,

Slam the Juice to It !! , Pump it Out !! .

--------------

Some Practical and Useful Information.

When the NM(dB) Signal Strength of All of the receivable Tv stations channels are in the Low Teens and Less , and the reception is blocked by terrain , then I Begin to Think about a stronger preamplifier such as the CM7777.

The CM7778 or 10G201 and other low gain amplifiers are better for your reception situation.

Most of the Tv station/channels at your reception location are moderate to

strong signal strength and are , LOS=Line Of Sight , no terrain obstructions.

This following information about antennas is Important.

Antenna Gain , a Bigger Antenna , Collects More Signal , Collecting More Signal

is Better then Trying to Amplify a Weak Signal from a Small Antenna.


---------------------------------

Yes is true about Multi-Path and antennas.

The DB8e antenna is designed to reduce the reception of multi-path to a

minimum.

It is a Trade Off.

The ability to receive Tv stations of different directions and the antennas

reception elements receiving reflections from different directions.

The alternative to trade offs is , install -->Multipul Antennas as in Many antennas.

Most of your receivable Tv stations are LOS so that is a reduction in reflections.

And also keep this in mind to reduce multi-path reflections.

Trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have an Negative Effect on

Broadcast Tv Reception.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflections Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is to install the antenna/s at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own , attic , roof , building.

----------

The Digital Tv Tuner Computer can Correct multi-path signals to a certain point.

I recommend install the DB8e antenna , as a trade off antenna combination.

I think reception will be Ok.
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