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Old 29-Jan-2019, 1:09 AM   #1
t56281
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Reception help in South Florida

Hello everyone,

I currently have a C2MAX connected to my living room tv (based on recommendations on a different thread) and am looking into getting another antenna for an outdoor tv I am installing. The C2Max works decently, but the signals to the stations I am most interested in are sometimes very weak or non-existent (WFLX Fox, WPBF ABC, WPTV NBC, and WPEC CBS). The CBS, Fox, and NBC are the ones I have the toughest time with. I am wondering if there is a better option for me than the C2MAX that would give me a more consistent signal to the four stations listed. I also found it strange that my signal analysis results are different now compared to my results from a couple of years ago. Here are both signal analyses:

Signal Analysis Results from two years ago: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4764b1db200

Signal Analysis Results from today: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038d79bde2810

If anyone has an idea about an ideal antenna setup, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Thanks!
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Old 29-Jan-2019, 3:13 AM   #2
rabbit73
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Hello again, t56281

This is your previous thread from 28-Jun-2017:
Reception help in FL
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16300

The link to the report from that thread is broken because the middle is missing from copy and paste. Here is the complete link:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4764b1db200
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Old 29-Jan-2019, 2:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t56281 View Post
I also found it strange that my signal analysis results are different now compared to my results from a couple of years ago. Here are both signal analyses:
TVFool is using a defective database with many errors to generate signal reports. This is your previous report:



This is your current report:



This report, from rabbitears.info, should have a more accurate list of channels:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg t56281TVFreport28-Jun-2017.JPG (164.7 KB, 297 views)
File Type: jpg t56281TVFreport1-28-2019.JPG (166.6 KB, 290 views)
File Type: jpg t56281TVFreportRE.JPG (198.9 KB, 284 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 29-Jan-2019 at 6:01 PM.
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Old 29-Jan-2019, 5:29 PM   #4
Tower Guy
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The C2MAX is enough antenna if it is in a favorable location. Another antenna to consider is a ANT751.
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Old 29-Jan-2019, 6:32 PM   #5
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t56281 View Post
I currently have a C2MAX connected to my living room tv (based on recommendations on a different thread) and am looking into getting another antenna for an outdoor tv I am installing. The C2Max works decently, but the signals to the stations I am most interested in are sometimes very weak or non-existent (WFLX Fox, WPBF ABC, WPTV NBC, and WPEC CBS). The CBS, Fox, and NBC are the ones I have the toughest time with. I am wondering if there is a better option for me than the C2MAX that would give me a more consistent signal to the four stations listed.
WFLX Fox and WPBF ABC are very strong on your report; you shouldn't have any trouble receiving them. Where is your C2MAX antenna located? Are there any trees in the signal path? Are you using a preamp?

WPTV NBC and WPEC CBS are weaker and on VHF-High channels. You might need an antenna that has more gain on channels 7-13 than the simple dipole for the C2MAX.

Another problem is that ABC is in a different direction than the other channels you want.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 29-Jan-2019 at 6:40 PM.
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Old 29-Jan-2019, 8:12 PM   #6
Nascarken
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I suggest the new CM-3011HD with the 30:db,channel master 7777AMP
And you do not have too stress on where to point the ANTENNA
Check out the new channel master antenna every one go to channel master web site
Well good luck with your antenna set-up.
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Old 30-Jan-2019, 1:12 PM   #7
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t56281 View Post
If anyone has an idea about an ideal antenna setup, I'd greatly appreciate it!
We are not able to give you specific advice about an ideal antenna setup until you give us more details about your location.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 30-Jan-2019 at 2:19 PM.
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Old 30-Jan-2019, 5:17 PM   #8
Tower Guy
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To me the CM 3011HD looks like half of a C2MAX. (Maybe a C1MAX?) If a C2 MAX isn’t doing well, either move it to a better location or get a larger antenna, not a smaller one.
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Old 31-Jan-2019, 7:40 AM   #9
t56281
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I have the antenna located in my attic in the middle of my house. There aren't any trees immediately blocking it. Maybe I need to look into putting it on the roof? My concern is that we get strong winds and driving rain here, but I'm sure there is a way to do it safely. I do not have a preamp, but am up for trying it if you think it might help. Is there one that is favorable over the others? Thanks for your help!
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Old 31-Jan-2019, 7:42 AM   #10
t56281
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Currently with the C2MAX, CBS is the weakest and ABC is the strongest for whatever reason.
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Old 31-Jan-2019, 12:47 PM   #11
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Get that sucker up on the roof with a clear view to the direction of the towers. Then you'll see what the real situation is.
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Old 31-Jan-2019, 3:53 PM   #12
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Your plot indicates that an amplifier is not only unnecessary, it would be more likely to be detrimental due to the calculated strong signals shown on your plot.


usually, when I see plots such as yours in instances of reception problems, the issue is almost always either a mistake in the deployment of the antenna, usually in the selection of the mounting location, or in its aiming.


Because the stations that serve the Palm beach area come from two different directions, you'll need to try and locate a spot where the signals from both general directions have a decent shot of getting to the antenna's elements. Without being able to see your exact location and doing a virtual (google's aerial and street level imagery) assessment of your location, I can only give you the general guidelines for what we know works best.


Please note that we have folks on duty here seven days a week to assist our customers with specific situations regarding our products. Just visit our website and look for the "Customer Service" link under the "About us" heading. The same link is in my signature below.
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Old 1-Feb-2019, 1:12 AM   #13
Nascarken
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[QUOTE=ADTech;60695]Your plot indicates that an amplifier is not only unnecessary, it would be more likely to be detrimental due to the calculated strong signals shown on your plot.


usually, when I see plots such as yours in instances of reception problems, the issue is almost always either a mistake in the deployment of the antenna, usually in the selection of the mounting location, or in its aiming.


Because the stations that serve the Palm beach area come from two different directions, you'll need to try and locate a spot where the signals from both general directions have a decent shot of getting to the antenna's elements. Without being able to see your exact location and doing a virtual (google's aerial and street level imagery) assessment of your location, I can only give you the general guidelines for what we know works best.


Please note that we have folks on duty here seven days a week to assist our customers with specific situations regarding our products. Just visit our website and look for the "Customer Service" link under the "About us" heading. The same link is in my signature below.[ Well you are wrong about that and over load will not happen becuse you are loosing receive during the day time and then at night time the channel 's come back??
And if you add an AMP it will fixs the problem!!!

Last edited by Nascarken; 1-Feb-2019 at 1:20 PM.
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Old 1-Feb-2019, 2:45 PM   #14
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I would also avoid the use of an amplifier.
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Old 1-Feb-2019, 4:59 PM   #15
ADTech
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Quote:
Well you are wrong about that and over load will not happen becuse you are loosing receive during the day time and then at night time the channel 's come back??
And if you add an AMP it will fixs the problem!!!
Adding an amp, especially a high gain amp in strong signal areas usually breaks things.


Reception loss that is related to a particular time of day is almost always due to interference. Adding an amp in those cases only makes things worse since the interference, if within the passband of the amp, is also amplified. Unless the interference happens to be outside the passband of the amp due to a filter in the amp, the amp won't fix the problem.


Simplistic, one-size-fits-all suggestions like to throw an amp at the problem usually are not the appropriate response to reception issues. In very weak signal areas, probably. In metro areas where the signals are strong, nope.
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Old 1-Feb-2019, 6:31 PM   #16
jrgagne99
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The math indicates that the Original Poster's signals are too strong for an amplifier (especially the Quad-7) and would be very likely to cause overload.
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Old 2-Feb-2019, 3:27 AM   #17
t56281
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Thanks everyone - I think I will try to put it up on the roof this weekend. Do I need to ground it even though it is plastic?
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Old 2-Feb-2019, 9:41 AM   #18
Tower Guy
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I would ground your antenna using one of these; https://www.showmecables.com/f-type-...iABEgL2f_D_BwE

The ground block will give static from a nearby lightning hit a place to go that isn’t your TV set.
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Old 2-Feb-2019, 10:41 AM   #19
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https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...nding-Info.pdf
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Old 2-Feb-2019, 2:10 PM   #20
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t56281 View Post
I have the antenna located in my attic in the middle of my house. There aren't any trees immediately blocking it. Maybe I need to look into putting it on the roof? My concern is that we get strong winds and driving rain here, but I'm sure there is a way to do it safely. I do not have a preamp, but am up for trying it if you think it might help. Is there one that is favorable over the others? Thanks for your help!
Your report does indicate that the signals are strong enough to overload a preamp and tuner, but the report assumes that your antenna is outside and in the clear. However, your antenna is in the attic, and the signals might be much weaker than indicated on the report.

For example, you might have aluminum siding or an aluminum foil thermal barrier on the sheathing; both will block TV signals.

I understand your desire to have the antenna in the attic to keep it out of the weather. There are some experiments you can try before putting the antenna outside, but they might not work. Do you have a signal strength indicator on your TV that will tell you if you are making any improvement with tests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by t56281 View Post
Currently with the C2MAX, CBS is the weakest and ABC is the strongest for whatever reason.
Is your antenna aimed at 315 for ABC or 211?

If you want to try a preamp in the attic, I suggest the Antennas Direct Juice or a Channel Master 7777HD at low gain 17 dB setting. The Juice is a medium gain preamp that is resistant to overload, but it doesn't have an FM filter. The 7777HD does have an FM filter, but it might not be sufficient. You have two strong local FM transmittrers that mught interfere with the reception of NBC and CBS that are on VHF-High channels.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/3...e/Radar-FM.png

If the simple VHF dipole for the C2MAX doesn't have enough gain for NBC and CBS which are your weakest desired channels, you can add a VHF antenna like the Stellar Labs 30-2475 to your C2MAX and combine them with an Antennas Direct UHF/VHF coimbiner.
https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...SAAEgJSpvD_BwE

https://store.antennasdirect.com/UHF...Combiners.html

If the attic experiments don't work, you must put your C2MAX outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t56281 View Post
Thanks everyone - I think I will try to put it up on the roof this weekend. Do I need to ground it even though it is plastic?
If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.



You are not required to ground the coax shield for the attic antenna, but it might be necessary to reduce the FM interference. It is possible to add an FM filter if necessary.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 2-Feb-2019 at 3:33 PM.
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