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Old 5-Jan-2014, 2:30 PM   #1
Jarutski
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Antenna Choice/Selection Help

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b940b2d0546d4

Hi, new to the site, but moving to a new house in 10 days and am looking at an antenna setup. The house is in the bottom of a valley, but it's not that far from at least one tower. The problem I have is that one of the signals I want to receive is in a completely different direction than a few of the other ones. I was looking into omni-directional antennas and I was thinking that something like the RCAANT800 might work for me. I am not sure if the signal is strong enough for an omni antenna (and I know that I might be overly hopeul) but I would like to somehow get channels 8,9,11, and 13. If possible, 7 would be a bonus, but I don't really care about it much.

Basically, I am in a rural area ~20 miles from a city and I am curious about what people think the best setup would be. I don't have a problem with a rooftop antenna if necessary, either. Is there any concern about length of coaxial, as well?

Thanks,

Jarutski
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Old 5-Jan-2014, 3:48 PM   #2
elmo
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Wow! Not sure I've ever seen such a clear plot as yours, and all VHF at that.

I'd ignore anything labeled as omnidirectional. Those have rather limited use and won't work for your scenario. For antennas, I'd look at AntennaCraft's VHF offerings. An all VHF design is the CS600. You could also opt for a VHF Hi only since that's where all your channels are, like the Y5713 model. Being directional, if it's aimed SE at 8, 9 & 13, 11 would have to be picked up from the rear side. Being that 11 is closer, that may work, but it's not optimal likely. If you add a rotor (which you can do later if you wish), you could adjust on the fly. Since you'd basically only have two directions, the rotor might not be a bad idea. They aren't friendly for quick channel surfing, but when channels are limited, there's not much surfing to be impacted. Getting two antennas in the mix would be tricky since they're be on the same bands, and that'd bring you more issues like multi-path, for all your reception, which you don't want. For comparison, mixing UHF + VHF is much easier, but that's not an option here.

On the roof with a clear view of the horizon to the SE and SW is what you want. The higher the better typically. Trees, roofs, etc will all impact reception, so the further away from them, the better.

As for coax, the shorter the better, but don't let a long run scare you into poor antenna placement. Locate the antenna in the best place, then estimate the amount of coax req'd. If necessary, a pre-amp can be added to boost the signal so that it gets through the length of coax required. All splices impact signal strength as well, so only splice and split as few times as needed. You can calculate estimate losses or hook it up and see how it measures up on your TV; most TV's have diagnostics that can show signal strength. The final fall back test method is just using your eyeballs and watching the pictures as they fly through the air....or not!

Check for more suggestions from others here and good luck!
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Old 5-Jan-2014, 3:55 PM   #3
ADTech
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Assuming that the TVFool data is correct and all those stations are on the air (I do not know):

1. Forget the small UHF antenna all your stations are high-VHF.

2. A small high-VHF antenna like the ClearStream 5 aimed to the southeast should work fine. Channel 11's signal is plenty strong enough to be received off the rear quarter.

3. You don't need that channel 7 signal, it appears to be a duplicate of CKCK.

4. Be prepared to move the antenna around in the attic, avoiding metal objects as much as possible.

Good luck!
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Last edited by ADTech; 5-Jan-2014 at 4:00 PM.
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Old 5-Jan-2014, 4:48 PM   #4
Jarutski
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Thanks for the help! What would the difference be between the ClearStream5 and the Y5713? Like I said, I don't mind putting one on the roof; I just want to make sure I get a good signal and I don't mind spending $100 or $200 for the antenna if it's a bit nicer/easier to install. So far I am leaning towards the ClearStream 5 for aesthetic reasons. Thanks again!

Jarutski

PS. I am in Saskatchewan, Canada, so that would be why my plot is so clear. Not much for major centres around!!
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Old 5-Jan-2014, 5:09 PM   #5
ADTech
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I have worked extensively with the C5 since it was a prototype and I'm very familiar with it.

I have never worked with the Y5713 since it isn't our product.
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Old 5-Jan-2014, 6:45 PM   #6
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To see if more Tv stations can be received with antenna heights higher above ground , please make and post 3 more tvfool reports with antenna heights of , 25 feet , 40 feet , 60 feet , above ground.
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Old 5-Jan-2014, 10:49 PM   #7
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25 ft - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94c1aab98e8d

40 ft - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94ccdf554b5b

60 ft - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94d9d63bd7cb

Thanks,

Jarutski
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Old 6-Jan-2014, 7:25 AM   #8
Jarutski
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Is there any particular mount and grade of coax that is recommended? As for a mount, it would be going on a sloped ashpalt shingle roof, so whatever is easiest and longest lasting would be best. I think that would be all I need (Antenna, mount, and coax), correct?

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Old 6-Jan-2014, 2:35 PM   #9
teleview
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Higher antenna height above ground does not provide any more Tv stations and provides little improvement of signal strength.

So , 10 to 25 feet above ground antenna height is Ok.

Closer to 25 feet above ground is better.

Install the C5 , aimed at about 239 degree magnetic compass direction for reception of , Analog channel 7 and the other Digital Tv stations channels that are stronger of signal in the other directions will be received.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

A antenna system amplifier will most likely not be required for , 1 or 2 Tv's connected.

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.saveandreplay.com.

http://www.trentondistributors.com.

-----------------------------------

Also here is a way to receive All of the , USA , PBS channels for free and also other Tv channels for free.

Here is a web site to learn more. http://www.ftalist.com.

Here is a Quality receiver.

www.manhattan-digital.net

Also check with , saveandreplay and trentondistributors , for FTA.

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And for those that are in the USA and Mexico that are reading about the FTA , Yes FTA is received in the USA and Mexico.

And as a matter of fact , FTA is receivable almost every where around the world and most every one around the world knows about FTA and many receive FTA all around the world.

The people's that know the least amount of information and are receiving the least FTA , are the USA people's the ones that are born and raised in the USA.

Last edited by teleview; 7-Jan-2014 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 6-Jan-2014, 7:02 PM   #10
Jarutski
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Full Install

So, after doing a bit more digging, I think I know what I need for a complete install:

1. Antenna (Clearstream 5)
2. Eave mount (Channel Master 9030)
3. Mast
3. RG6 Coax
4. Single Grounding Block
5. Copper Wire and clamps for grounding mast.
6. Ground Rod

Anything I am missing?

Thanks,

Jarutski
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Old 6-Jan-2014, 7:20 PM   #11
teleview
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For Digital Broadcast Tv Reception , that will do it.

The building electric service ground is a better place to ground then driving a separate ground rod.
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Old 7-Jan-2014, 1:07 AM   #12
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I'd have to agree. Though you won't hurt anything by adding a ground rod, it's usually less work and expense to simply run the mast grounding lead to your existing electrical service ground.

If you add a rod, be sure to 'bond' it to the existing electrical ground system with #6 AWG copper. An isolated ground rod is a potential safety hazard.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 7-Jan-2014, 1:21 AM   #13
Jarutski
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Eave mount?

I was thinking about the eave mount, and I can't help but think that I might want to fiddle around with positioning to get the best signal. The eave mount doesn't really let me move the antenna around too much, so I was thinking that maybe a tripod or other mount might be better. What is the easiest mount to use and/or would I even want to move the antenna around much on the roof? Is it worth it to get a cheap signal strength indicator?

Thanks,

Jarutski
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Old 7-Jan-2014, 5:53 AM   #14
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The economical approach would be to test reception at various locations and elevations... before drilling any holes in your building. A 4' to 6' ladder can be weighted near the base and then used as a temporary tripod that's still fairly easy to move about.

If your TV lacks a signal quality/strength meter, consider using a SiliconDust HDHR type tuner. Until you step up in price significantly, I don't think you'll find a better signal hunting tool. It also makes a great base for a PVR/DVR. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820
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Old 7-Jan-2014, 6:20 AM   #15
teleview
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The signal strengths of the Digital Broadcast TV Stations/Channels are moderate to strong signal strength , most likely will not have to move the antenna.

However , a tripod antenna mount can be moved around on angled and flat roof's.

Some , weight , tied in the center of the tripod will hold the tripod in place when testing reception.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

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A low cost way to do testing of reception if you will like to move the antenna around some.

Is use a wooden chair up on the roof as a tempoary moveable antenna mount.

Or you can temporary lash the antenna to the chimney and see what reception is like at that location.

Here are some permanent chimney antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

http://www.ronard.com.

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The Important Location concerning the location of the antenna for reception is.

Trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing , Blocking , Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv signals bouncing all around.

The Best Practice is to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

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Concerning the electric code of wiring and grounding.

The usage of non common word/concepts.

As an example.

The word , bond / bonded / bonding.

Simply means to make a electrical connection that will continue to make electrical connection.

Stores like Home Depot.

Have a electrical department.

And in the electrical department are electric grounding connection hardware.

The grounding clamps and hardware is made with long lasting metal alloys that last a long time outside exposed to the weather.

And copper alloy wire that is made for grounding , for long lasting service usage outside exposed to the weather.

The copper alloy ground wire is , tough hard wire.

----------------

Most Digital Tv's have a , Signal Strength Meter , and some Digital Tv's also have a , Signal Quality Meter.
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Old 7-Jan-2014, 1:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Concerning the electric code of wiring and grounding.

The usage of non common word/concepts.

As an example.

The word , bond / bonded / bonding.

Simply means to make a electrical connection that will continue to make electrical connection.
There is also an important part of the definition that calls for the conductor to be up to the task. The NEC definition is rather straightforward,
Quote:
Bonding (Bonded). The permanent joining of metallic parts to form an electrically conductive path that ensures electrical continuity and the capacity to conduct safely any current likely to be imposed.
(NEC, 2005 edition)

Bleeding off a small amount of static charge doesn't take a heavy conductor, but the current during a lighting induced surge or short circuit fault would explain why the codes call for a heavy gauge conductor between ground rods.
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Old 8-Jan-2014, 2:42 AM   #17
Jarutski
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Is there a diagram or walkthrough anywhere on the site to show a typical setup? Just want to make sure I don't miss anything...
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