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Old 6-Jan-2019, 12:00 AM   #1
waldosgone
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Alaska Help

Hi all,

I just purchased a semi remote Alaskan cabin. The previous owners had DirecTV but I cut the cord in 2010. I brought a spare Mohu Leaf from my primary residence but it doesnít pick up Fox or CBS reliably. Iíve attached my report but Iíd like some help to select an antenna.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038d73daeacb9

My antenna will have to get installed in the coming weeks as it was -10 degrees today for a low and -1 for a high temp. Sure makes the snow crunchy and ice road nice and stable.

Thanks in advance!

Waldo
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 2:23 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Hello, Waldo; welcome to the forum.

Thank you for the signal report.



There are some errors in the TVFool signal report because they are using a defective database to generate reports. This report from rabbitears.info has a more accurate list of channels:



Quote:
Originally Posted by waldosgone View Post
I brought a spare Mohu Leaf from my primary residence but it doesn’t pick up Fox or CBS reliably.
What channels did you get and where was the antenna located for the test?

Where will your new antenna be located?

There are several possible solutions. The stronger channels are VHF from 145 degrees and the weaker channels are UHF from 170 degrees.

You could have a UHF/VHF combo antenna like the Winegard HD7694P aimed between 145 and 170, but closer to 170. You wouldn't be able to use a preamp to help the weak CBS because it would be overloaded by KYES. Also, the contact between the forks and the wires from the two sections of the antenna in the 8269 balun housing might be affected by low temperatures.





The solution that I favor would be two separate antennas; a VHF antenna aimed at 145 and a UHF antenna aimed at 170. The two feed lines would come inside, and a medium gain amp (out of the cold weather) could be added to the UHF coax if needed, and the two combined with a UVSJ UHF/VHF combiner.

The simple two antenna solution would be an Antennas Direct DB4e for UHF and the accessory VHF dipole kit for VHF.
https://store.antennasdirect.com/VHF-Antenna-Kit.html

https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_..._201402062.pdf

If for some odd reason the VHF dipole kit doesn't have enough gain for 7, 8, 10, and 12, substitute a Stellar Labs 30-2475 VHF antenna.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg waldosgoneTVFreport.JPG (86.0 KB, 253 views)
File Type: jpg waldosgoneTVFmap.JPG (118.8 KB, 262 views)
File Type: jpg waldosgoneTVFreportRE.JPG (167.4 KB, 257 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 6-Jan-2019 at 4:34 PM.
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 4:46 PM   #3
waldosgone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post


Hello, Waldo; welcome to the forum.
What channels did you get and where was the antenna located for the test?

Where will your new antenna be located?

.
For the test I placed the Leaf on the east wall (interior)and was able to receive:
KTUU
KYES
KAKM
KYUR
As well as several (12 in total) -series channels.

I then placed the Leaf on the south wall and there was no change in channels received.

Repeated the test with the Leaf on the south window with same results.

The new antenna will be placed approximately 20 feet up on the south side of the cabin. My intent was to use the same mast to put OTA and a cell booster antenna. We are on the lake so the immediate vicinity (at least .25-.50 miles is open water then hills. Between the cabin and Anchorage there are some pretty significant mountains (5-8k feet)


Rabbit - thank you for your help and I look forward to your response. Please let me know if you need any additional info. I was thinking along the lines of the two antennas but was not sure how to actually execute it.
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 6:26 PM   #4
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waldosgone View Post
For the test I placed the Leaf on the east wall (interior)and was able to receive:
KTUU
KYES
KAKM
KYUR
As well as several (12 in total) -series channels.
That sounds promising. The VHF dipole kit should have enough gain for those 4 channels when mounted outside.

The dipole instructions say to use the combiner in the dipole to combine with the UHF antenna, and then have just one downlead. You can try it that way, but if you need more UHF gain for CBS, you must keep the downleads separate for the two antennas to add amplification for UHF only.

It is possible to have a UHF/VHF combiner and preamp just for UHF outside, but I'm concerned about them being exposed to the weather.
Quote:
The new antenna will be placed approximately 20 feet up on the south side of the cabin. My intent was to use the same mast to put OTA and a cell booster antenna.
I'm concerned about the TV receiving antenna being so close to the transmitted cell boost. You might need an LTE filter, depending up what cellular frequencies are being used.
https://www.channelmaster.com/TV_Ant..._p/cm-3201.htm



A filter is more effective when the coax is grounded with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground.

The Antennas Direct Juice preamp has a built-in LTE filter.

It might be necessary to move the cell booster away from the TV antenna.

Quote:
I was thinking along the lines of the two antennas but was not sure how to actually execute it.
You must be prepared to do some experiments to see what works best.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CM-3201 Attenuation.JPG (70.4 KB, 225 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 6-Jan-2019 at 6:53 PM.
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 6:44 PM   #5
waldosgone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
That sounds promising. The VHF dipole kit should have enough gain for those 4 channels when mounted outside.

The dipole instructions say to use the combiner in the dipole to combine with the UHF antenna, and then have just one downlead. You can try it that way, but if you need more UHF gain for CBS, you must keep the downleads separate for the two antennas to add amplification for UHF only.
.
I think Iíll go with the separate downleads as Iíll already be up there to run one and two isnít that much more expense or effort. It allows for future expansion.

I might have been a bit unclear as far as my cell booster plans. The antenna would occupy the same mast but the booster would be inside the cabin and on the opposite wall. 15 feet of separation should be good enough?

Ironically the combiner on Antennas Direct canít be shipped to Alaska but the antennas can. Iíll have to have it shipped to my parents and pick it up later this month.
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 7:02 PM   #6
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waldosgone View Post
I might have been a bit unclear as far as my cell booster plans. The antenna would occupy the same mast but the booster would be inside the cabin and on the opposite wall. 15 feet of separation should be good enough?
I understand that the booster antenna inside will be close to your cell phone, but I don't have a good understanding of what goes on with the booster antenna outside on the mast. Is it just receiving signals from the cell tower, or is it also transmitting a stronger signal to the cell tower from your phone. I have read the Wilson explanations, but it's still ambiguous to me.

Quote:
A cellular signal booster works like this:•detecting and collecting very faint cell signals (much fainter than your phone can detect)
•helping those faint signal bypass various obstructions
•amplifying the faint signals to a useable level
•broadcasting the amplified signals to an interior space – like your home, office or vehicle – so they can be picked up by your phone or other cellular device

When you use your phone, the process works in reverse to send amplified signals back to the cell tower to complete the communication loop.
If it is sending an amplified signal back to the tower, what is to prevent your TV antenna from receiving it?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 6-Jan-2019 at 7:25 PM.
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 7:23 PM   #7
waldosgone
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Good point. I hadn’t thought of the need to transmit and receive the signal for the cell.

I may end up splitting the TV mast to the back of the cabin still pointing south. The cabin has a metal roof. Think there would be any issues or trial and error?

The cell antenna would go on the front (less intrusive and more WAF) pointing south.
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Old 6-Jan-2019, 7:57 PM   #8
rabbit73
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There will be reflections from the roof that can help or hinder the direct signal.

You don't need to go back to the drawing board and start all over again. Just try a few things to see what works. The results will tell you what to try next.
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Old 7-Jan-2019, 4:06 PM   #9
rickbb
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The outside cell antenna transmits and receives but is highly directional. You aim it directly at the nearest cell tower. Some I've seen also have reflectors/shielding on the back side.

You may be able to mount it on the same mast but with as much vertical separation as possible. Just keep in mind it needs as close as line of sight to the nearest tower as you can get.

Like Rabbit said, you may, (most likely will), need to do lots of trial and error locating the sweet spot for placement. Both horizontally and vertically. Sometimes just a few feet can make a big difference with roof reflections.
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Old 20-Jan-2019, 5:22 PM   #10
waldosgone
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I ordered the db4e, VHF dipole, combiner, and Clearstream juice preamplifier today. I had to have them shipped to Ohio (to my parents house) and I'll carry them back on the next trip up. I'll post again in this thread to let you know how it turned out.

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 21-Jan-2019, 12:52 AM   #11
rabbit73
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Thanks for the update.

Good luck with your project.
__________________
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Lord Kelvin, 1883
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Old 21-Jan-2019, 1:19 AM   #12
Nascarken
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Well Hello there instead of the antenna comebinder I can get you
A johansson amp kits that does vhf 30:db and uhf 45:db 24volts
Mast mount AMP $50dollars +shipping way better than channel master
Just as good as blender toung!! Good luck with your antenna set-up.
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Old 11-Feb-2019, 10:07 PM   #13
waldosgone
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I’ve done a bit of experimenting while there are several feet of snow. I’ve been using the db4e and various combinations of amp or no amp. So far my reception is on par with the leaf but still can’t get Fox or CBS.

I’ve got a clear view of the southern sky. I’m using the mast the old direct tv antenna was mounted on and the previous owners were able to use it so I know it has a good look to the south. It’s mounted up the hill a bit so I’d think the antenna is 15-20 feet off of lake level.

Next step is to use the shorter mast the direct tv antenna was mounted on as a sleeve for an additional 10 feet of galvanized pipe until it warms up and I can devise a more permanent solution. See if the extra 10 feet of elevation helps.

Any other thoughts?
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Old 12-Feb-2019, 12:28 AM   #14
waldosgone
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On a whim I made a 100 foot cable and ran it up the hill on the back of the property (and up a dead tree) and now I’m getting CBS but no Fox! Actually I’m pulling all channels (UHF and VHF) through the db4e. May not need the rest of it...

It’s definitely a moose tripping hazard now.
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