Confused about analog vs digital channel reception

gimmeagig · 17-Jan-2011, 3:25 AM

Hi,
I'm glad I found this forum. I'm sure you guys will be able to help me.
I bought a Terk HDTVo outdoor amplified UHF VHF antenna and to go with that a DTVPal DVR recorder so I could skip the commercials and record programs.
When I first got the antenna I hooked it up to my Sharp Aquos LCD Tv and was able to receive a fair number of UHF and VHF channels.
I was hoping I would do even better with the DTV Pal because the manufacturer claims that the built in tuners are of superior quality. Not so. The reception is about the same except for the fact that I'm losing channel 41 (CBS) and channel 44 which is my favorite channel KSPS public television.Both of them are analog and according to the manual,the DTV Pal can only receive digital channels.
My Sharp TV on the other hand gets them fine but with that I'm not able to fast forward through commercials or record.
So I'm wondering if there is some kind of workaround that would make it possible for me to receive analog channels going through my DTVPal.

GroundUrMast · 17-Jan-2011, 5:11 AM

Partly due to FCC rules, television manufacturers include three types of tuners in equipment that is sold as a "television".

The tuners include:
Analog (NTSC) for Over the Air and Cable
QAM (digital cable)
ATSC (digtal over the air)

Those rules do not apply to accessories such as tuner cards, DVRs, monitors, etc.

The DTV PAL is equipped with only an ATSC tuner, that makes it practically impossible to connect an analog source to it. At present there is no consumer grade analog to digital modulators on the market. My understanding is that it's a combination of economics and politics that block the development of a consumer grade NTSC to ATSC modulator.

Hauppauge http://www.hauppauge.com/ offers a variety of solutions that include support for ATSC and NTSC reception and recording.

gimmeagig · 17-Jan-2011, 4:43 PM

Lot's of info here.Thanks. I do get the digital PBS stations.IDPTV,IDPTV-HD,Learn,and World.That's great.But the analog station KSPS has the best programming and that one I can't get.Oh well, too bad.Maybe the station will eventually go digital.

gimmeagig · 17-Jan-2011, 4:50 PM

I am really new to this OTA thing and reading some of the antenna articles It makes me wonder if my antenna is good enough.
Here it is
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CD8Q8wIwAg#
I seem to get most of the channels here OK and I suppose even if I got the biggest monster setup I would still not have the Analogs on my DVR.
As far as postitioning goes, How critical is it that my antenna is absolutely level from let to right and also level in the direction of the station.
My antenna was not listed in the articles I found maybe I can get you guys to give me your take on my setup.

GroundUrMast · 17-Jan-2011, 5:34 PM

Rather than guessing or assuming about the signals available to you, please post a signal analysis report to help us help you...

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=4

gimmeagig · 17-Jan-2011, 7:27 PM

Here's the report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...3cf483e8fb47b7
I don't really understand what to do with it yet. It's confusing.
I went back on the roof and experimented a bit with pointing the antenna.Some of the stations I want come in when I point the antenna to 230 degrees on my compass, but when I do that I loose my 4 public tv channels plus "this tv" (old movies).
The ideal position for my public TV stations is at about 180 degrees on my compass, the antenna points straight into a hillside behind that is Coeur D'Alene where I think some transmitters are located. I did point it up a bit and that seems to improve reception a little but it could also just be wishful thinking.
The public TV stations are my priority, but I really would also like to be able to pull in CBS. That seems to be a strong station I might not need a high end antenna for it but I need to direct that antenna accurately to be able to get it.
Would it be possible to connect a second antenna( maybe even just a cheap indoor antenna) together with the first one and point it to 230 degrees(for CBS), then merging the two antenna signals with a 2 into 1 adapter going into the DTVpal?
Thanks for your help!

Tower Guy · 17-Jan-2011, 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmeagig

Would it be possible to connect a second antenna( maybe even just a cheap indoor antenna) together with the first one and point it to 230 degrees(for CBS), then merging the two antenna signals with a 2 into 1 adapter going into the DTVpal?

Yes, a second antenna is a good idea. No, a backwards splitter isn't the optimum choice to gang the antennas. Use an A/B switch to pick up the local PBS. Any un-amplified UHF only antenna should work fine.

The stations at 230 magnetic would be best picked up with a HD7698P and no amplifier.

GroundUrMast · 17-Jan-2011, 9:12 PM

A second antenna is an option... Combining the signals from two antennas can be a technically challenging task though.

As John has already mentioned, the Terk antenna may not be ideal for you; The amplifier may be overloaded by the strong local signals. Your report lists ten transmitters 1.4 miles from you.

I suggest two antennas:

The first, a 4 bay panel style such as a DB-4 or CM4221. Aimed at 158° per your compass, you should easily receive enough signal to drive a 4-way splitter with no amplifier needed. This antenna would not need to be mounted at the top of the mast even.

The second antenna I suggest would be a combination UHF/high-VHF such as a Winegard HD7697 aimed at 230° (compass). If you include a high input preamplifier such as a Winegard HDP269, you have a very good opportunity to see KXMN-LD, a MyNetwork affiliate.

Rather than trying to combine the signals from the separate sources, I would suggest using separate runs of coax and A/B switches. Or consider http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820

(Looks like I typed slow - TG types faster than me...

)

mtownsend · 18-Jan-2011, 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmeagig

The reception is about the same except for the fact that I'm losing channel 41 (CBS) and channel 44 which is my favorite channel KSPS public television.Both of them are analog and according to the manual,the DTV Pal can only receive digital channels.

There are digital versions of KSPS (on real channel 7) and KREM (on real channel 20), so if you can get the two antenna setup working, I don't think you need to rely on the analog versions of these channels any more.

gimmeagig · 19-Jan-2011, 4:45 AM

So on my dtvpal I can select "add a new channel" and the it gives me the option to pick a channel and the search for it to tune it in.
Are you saying I should get the second antenna and aim it to 230 degrees( I think that's where KREM is, I don't know about KSPS) and see if this specific search for 7 and 20 will find these channels?

GroundUrMast · 19-Jan-2011, 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmeagig

So on my dtvpal I can select "add a new channel" and the it gives me the option to pick a channel and the search for it to tune it in.
Are you saying I should get the second antenna and aim it to 230 degrees( I think that's where KREM is, I don't know about KSPS) and see if this specific search for 7 and 20 will find these channels?

Yes, that's correct.

Quote:

...a combination UHF/high-VHF such as a Winegard HD7697 aimed at 230° (compass).

Or as TG suggested,

Quote:

...a HD7698P and no amplifier.

John Candle · 19-Jan-2011, 6:04 AM

Read and understand this about Real Digital Tv Channels and Virtual Digital Tv Channels. One needs to know the Real Digital Tv Channels so one can know the correct antenna to receive the Tv stations. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695 . The channels you need to receive are the Digital Tv Channels not the Analog Channels.

John Candle · 19-Jan-2011, 8:08 AM

Ok here is what to do to receive the digital channels --> plain and simple. Do not twist the information around and around and around until it's no information at all. Your location shows that if you will like to receive all the Digital Channels in the directions of magnetic compass 247 and magnetic compass 158 that you Need to install ----> 2 Separate antenna systems<----. You will Not connect the 2 separate antenna systems on to one coax at the same time. 2 separate antenna systems means 2 separate antenna systems. A Antennasdirect DB8 UHF antenna with No amplifier will be pointed at 158 magnetic compass. And a Winegard HD7698P antenna with No amplifier will be pointed at 247 magnetic compass. The reason I say 247 magnetic compass is because the Pending Applications Included show that digital channels 32 and 13 will be transmitting soon. At each Tv location will be remote control A/B antenna switch , http://www.antennasdirect.com , has the remote control A/B antenna switch , http://solidsignal.com , has the remote control A/B antenna switch , http://www.radioshack.com , has the remote control A/B antenna switch. Here are places to buy Antennas and etc.. http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.3starinc.com , http://www.amazon.com

John Candle · 19-Jan-2011, 8:26 AM

If you choose not to install the 2 separate antenna systems. . You can install a one antenna system. The one antenna be a Winegard HD7698P with No amplifier. The HD7698P will be mounted on a rotor so as to turn the antenna to the two directions of 247 magnetic compass and 158 magnetic compass. The rotor is the Channelmaster CM 9521A