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Old 6-Sep-2018, 4:16 PM   #1
JoeAZ
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Help needed in Fountain Hills, AZ

I am posting this message so as to get input from others as this
person is not yet able to make their own posts. My first inclination
would be to say you've done a whole lot of things correctly. The
antenna, short cable runs, etc, etc are all signs you have a very
good knowledge of broadcast reception. With that said, how did
you come about with the placement of your tower??? Was the
placement due to convenience or some other priority??? Have
you tried receiving all your television from Tucson??? I have
seen many, many times where Tucson get a better signal to Ftn.
Hills than Phoenix stations on South Mtn?? Lets hear from some
of our experts on this!!!!!!!!!

Greeting from Fountain Hills
Hi, I'm in Fountain Hills AZ trying to get a reliable signal on Channel 12. I've got mountains and a neighbors house causing problems. Prior to the neighbors house being there I was getting a signal at a much lower height. Now 58' AGL gets it, 54' AGL doesn't. Antenna is currently down to about 33' AGL for maintenance and monsoon season. At 33' I lose Ch 3 (23) as well as 12. Antenna is a Winegard HD7698, 50' cable run to a Channel Plus DA-506BID DA to 4 TVs in the house. I just climbed off the tower to disconnect a Lime PA which Solid Signals had on sale, thought I'd give it a try. I could seen no difference in the system with the rudimentary signal strength meters at my disposal. In fact I lost Ch 5 (17), 60 mins didn't record last night. Thus I took the Juice PA off line. It looks like I need higher gain in at the antenna level. This is a PM because I see you're from AZ and have had some insightful posts. I can't post to the forum, I applied 4 weeks ago but haven't been activated yet which is a bit frustrating. I'm getting ready to put the antenna back up (with new guy wires, that and the monsoons inspired me to take it down to 33') I'd love to get the experts insights as to how I might be able to increase my antenna gain but it's football season so the antenna needs to get back up. :-) By the way, I can't get 3 (24) at 33' but I can get Tucson 4 (23), go figure. :-) Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this.
Here's my location report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90386d3aea6f11
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Old 7-Sep-2018, 3:12 PM   #2
rabbit73
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TVFool report link doesn't work, Joe; it's broken in the middle. You must have done a copy and paste. Is this it?
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90386d3aea6f11

Is there any chance you can ask (insert his username here) the exact coordinates of his antenna and give them to me by PM, so that I can look at the satellite view?
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File Type: jpg JoeAZTVFmapForPM.JPG (159.7 KB, 346 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 7-Sep-2018 at 4:29 PM.
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Old 7-Sep-2018, 4:59 PM   #3
JoeAZ
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Rabbit73,
I've asked for our new member to PM you directly.
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Old 7-Sep-2018, 5:23 PM   #4
ADTech
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Couple of comments, even thought the OP is not able to reply directly. You're welcome to reply via PM (if it works) and I'll paste in any replies:

1. "I applied 4 weeks ago but haven't been activated yet" - Been a lot of that going on for a couple of years. Sadly, it seems the site owner no longer has either the time or inclination to manage either the site or the underlying database. Hasn't been a moderator present for several years, the last two apparently drifted away (or whatever).

2. "Channel Plus DA-506BID DA" - I've never heard of it, but its published specs don't leave me impressed as far as its maximum input power.

3. "Lime PA which Solid Signals had on sale" - Surely a typo as I can't find anything on the SS website called by that name.

4. "It looks like I need higher gain in at the antenna level" - Both unlikely and probably impractical. Your existing antenna is about as good as it can get in regards to net gain on high-VHF short of either building your own or building a dedicated array of multiple high-VHF band antennas. There is a Chinese-made import that's being sold by various sellers, but it is not clearly documented as to what to expect from it in regards to performance.

5. "Prior to the neighbors house being there I was getting a signal at a much lower height. Now 58' AGL gets it, 54' AGL doesn't." - Sounds more like you have a location problem than anything else. Relocating a tower is not easy, but it likely what you need to do.

6. You have an FM station (105.9) very close by that would suggest that an FM trap would be prudent. While it's frequency is such that its 2nd harmonic doesn't fall into the channel 12 bandwidth, it's pretty close and there is a potential for it mixing with some other nearby signal to produce intermodulation products within the channel 12 bandwidth. It's also possible that it's forcing your aim into some compression and that's causing the difficulties with channel 12. Like I said, a trap would be "prudent" but the math isn't crystal clear as an indicator. The hard part would locating the trap, sometimes you can find left over Radio Shack units on ebay. I also have no idea how the 7698 would react to FM signals but I suspect it would receive them rather strongly but at odd angles to the expected performance that is documented. Of course, since FM is out of the design band for that antenna, Winegard did not document that particular aspect of its performance.
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Last edited by ADTech; 9-Sep-2018 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 8-Sep-2018, 12:35 AM   #5
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
Rabbit73,
I've asked for our new member to PM you directly.
Good.

I hope he knows that he has a limit of 5 PMs before he is authorized to post. If he needs to continue a PM conversation, he has to copy and save earlier PMs, and then delete them.

Good advice above from ADTech.
Quote:
Prior to the neighbors house being there I was getting a signal at a much lower height. Now 58' AGL gets it, 54' AGL doesn't.
Sounds like the neighbor's house is blocking the signal. Raising the antenna certainly helps.
Quote:
I just climbed off the tower to disconnect a Lime PA which Solid Signals had on sale, thought I'd give it a try. I could seen no difference in the system with the rudimentary signal strength meters at my disposal. In fact I lost Ch 5 (17), 60 mins didn't record last night. Thus I took the Juice PA off line.
Are you calling the Juice preamp the Lime preamp? Why would you remove a preamp when your report indicates you need one? OTA signals constantly vary in strength. Your test doesn't support the conclusion to remove the preamp with 2Edge marginal signals.

It's not clear to me what is connected to what and how long the coax lines are. Something like this?

7698 > preamp > coax 50 ft > grounding block > preamp power inserter > distribution amp > TVs

Quote:
By the way, I can't get 3 (24) at 33' but I can get Tucson 4 (23), go figure. :-)
Enhancement of weak, usually impossible, signals by Tropospheric Propagation.

Quote:
Hi, I'm in Fountain Hills AZ trying to get a reliable signal on Channel 12.
Electrical interference is higher on VHF-High than on UHF. it could be affecting reception of 12.

Another possibility is FM interference. You have a strong local FM signal that can interfere with the reception of 12. I did an FMFool report based on an estimated location derived from your TVFool report because I don't have your address or the exact coordinates of your antenna. It shows that KHOT-FM at -13.7 dBm is strong enough to interfere with 12.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/7...d/Radar-FM.png

The Juice preamp doesn't have an FM filter, but it does have an LTE filter; there wasn't room in the case for both. For some weird reason ADTech's boss decided to discontinue their FM filter.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html

And what is even more weird, their UVSJ UHF/VHF combiner is out of stock:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store..._combiner.html

His boss doesn't seem to understand that having those two items in stock encourages the sale of their antennas.

Rant over.

Anyway, you can use a HLSJ, high section, as an FM filter:
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj

Order two; you might need two in series between the antenna and the preamp if my estimate is correct. And the coax must be grounded with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground to help reject interference.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 8-Sep-2018 at 2:21 AM.
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Old 8-Sep-2018, 2:02 PM   #6
ADTech
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Quote:
For some weird reason ADTech's boss decided to discontinue their FM filter.
It's not weird at all. It took SIX YEARS to sell through the last order that we had received and we have to order those things in minimums of several thousand. By the time we sold through that inventory, we had already paid cumulative inventory carrying costs over that time that we actually lost money on the last units. Since the first order of business is to not loose money (can't make it up on volume), the decision was made to discontinue that item as well as a good number of other SKUs that were slow moving and unprofitable.


Quote:
And what is even more weird, their UVSJ UHF/VHF combiner is out of stock:
A distributor cleaned us out earlier this summer with a large order that they had not forecast. Replenishment stock should be available in about two weeks, it was to arrive in Long Beach yesterday. In the meantime, inside sales as a limited number of UVSJ devices that we stripped from leftover C2 VHF Reflector kits that were to have been scrapped. They were supplied by Holland with our private label on them. You have to call in to order them.


Quote:
His boss doesn't seem to understand that having those two items in stock encourages the sale of their antennas.
My boss understands perfectly what his obligations are. SKUs that are not earning their keep get pruned and eliminated from the product lineup. We do not pretend to be a one-stop shop for everything antenna related, our product lineup is focused on those items that sell in volume with sufficient margin so as to support all of the obligations of the company including my personal favorite, my paycheck. I happen to be in favor of that priority.


Rant rebuttal over.


Quote:
Anyway, you can use a HLSJ, high section, as an FM filter:
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj
It's good to see that SS has those back in stock. They were out last year and, when I spoke to them, they weren't sure they could find any remaining inventory somewhere. I finally found a couple on ebay that I needed for an experimental setup. They will indeed work well for suppressing the local FM station and, as suggested, it will probably require two of them to be stacked to provide enough FM signal reduction.
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Old 8-Sep-2018, 3:41 PM   #7
JoeAZ
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OK Guys, rant and rebuttals aside, I want to draw your attention to the TV Fool
report that indicates KVOA, NBC 4 Tucson, on Rf 23. The Tucson stations on Mt.
Bigelow appear unrecoverable in the report yet they do manage to be received
in Ftn. Hills. My "take" on this is that the TV Fool report is erroneous. The Phoenix
stations are over-represented and the Tucson stations under represented.
Since the Tucson stations are being received consistently, how can this be tropo?
Your thoughts???
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Old 8-Sep-2018, 4:05 PM   #8
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
It's not weird at all. It took SIX YEARS to sell through the last order that we had received and we have to order those things in minimums of several thousand. By the time we sold through that inventory, we had already paid cumulative inventory carrying costs over that time that we actually lost money on the last units. Since the first order of business is to not loose money (can't make it up on volume), the decision was made to discontinue that item as well as a good number of other SKUs that were slow moving and unprofitable.
Thank you for the thorough and well-thought-out explanation; it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.

Antennas Direct was the last regular supplier of FM traps, which are vital for good reception at some locations. Is there some reason why Antennas Direct can't sell them at a price point that would be profitable? The former price point was so low that it was obviously unprofitable. There doesn't seem to much competition now for that device.

Quote:
A distributor cleaned us out earlier this summer with a large order that they had not forecast. Replenishment stock should be available in about two weeks, it was to arrive in Long Beach yesterday. In the meantime, inside sales as a limited number of UVSJ devices that we stripped from leftover C2 VHF Reflector kits that were to have been scrapped. They were supplied by Holland with our private label on them. You have to call in to order them.
Thank you for the detailed clarification; glad that Antennas Direct will continue to stock the UHF/VHF combiner in the enclosure; a vital device that is superior to the Stellar Labs UVSJ.
Quote:
My boss understands perfectly what his obligations are. SKUs that are not earning their keep get pruned and eliminated from the product lineup. We do not pretend to be a one-stop shop for everything antenna related, our product lineup is focused on those items that sell in volume with sufficient margin so as to support all of the obligations of the company including my personal favorite, my paycheck. I happen to be in favor of that priority.
Understood
Quote:
It's good to see that SS has those back in stock. They were out last year and, when I spoke to them, they weren't sure they could find any remaining inventory somewhere. I finally found a couple on ebay that I needed for an experimental setup. They will indeed work well for suppressing the local FM station and, as suggested, it will probably require two of them to be stacked to provide enough FM signal reduction.
Thank you for the detailed background information. The choices are: Get 'em while you can, buy an expensive FM filter from Tin Lee, or make your own high-pass filter in an empty splitter enclosure.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 9-Sep-2018 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 9-Sep-2018, 3:09 AM   #9
rabbit73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
OK Guys, rant and rebuttals aside, I want to draw your attention to the TV Fool
report that indicates KVOA, NBC 4 Tucson, on Rf 23. The Tucson stations on Mt.
Bigelow appear unrecoverable in the report yet they do manage to be received
in Ftn. Hills. My "take" on this is that the TV Fool report is erroneous. The Phoenix
stations are over-represented and the Tucson stations under represented.
Since the Tucson stations are being received consistently, how can this be tropo?
Your thoughts???
Yes, Joe; the report makes it look like Phoenix channels will be easy to receive and the Tucson channels will be impossible to receive.

It is well known that the reports are much less accurate for 1Edge and 2Edge signals than for LOS signals because of limitations in the software used to generate the reports. This is an extract of the report:



For comparison I did a rabbitears.info report based on my estimate of his location:



Next, I did terrain profiles of the two channels:





In the KTVK terrain profile the signal grazes the surface just before the receiving antenna, which causes a lot of scattering of the signal much like multipath. Raising the antenna helps a lot to reduce the scattering received and helps the signals clear the neighbor's house.

The KVOA signal only has to make it over one peak.

My theory to explain the paradox consists of two parts:

1. The KTVK signal is deflected from its path to the receiving antenna by a temperature inversion that is formed in the terrain bowl between the transmitter and the first peak.
2. The KVOA signal enters a high altitude duct because the transmitting antenna is at a high altitude. This duct, acting like permanent Tropo, carries the weaker KVOA signal much further, before refraction bends it down to the receiving antenna.

My advice is to raise the antenna as high as possible, add a preamp, and insert an FM filter between the antenna and the preamp. The coax must be grounded with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground. If 12 is still a problem, suspect local electrical interference.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg JoeAZTVFreportRE3forPM.jpg (311.1 KB, 335 views)
File Type: jpg JoeAZTVFp2KTVK.JPG (112.8 KB, 341 views)
File Type: jpg JoeAZTVFp2KVOA.JPG (126.8 KB, 309 views)
File Type: jpg JoeAZTVFrepotForPM.JPG (203.8 KB, 330 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-Sep-2018 at 2:48 AM.
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Old 10-Sep-2018, 3:06 AM   #10
rabbit73
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From niv by PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
Wow, didn't see the post that Joe put up for me. I wish I could participate. Here is a clean link to my report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90386d3aea6f11

The address you used was in the neighborhood but a little ways away. Yes the PA is Juice. I guess Lime is as type of juice. I haven't been able to read the thread in depth, will be doing that first thing tomorrow morning. Thought the FM trap was interesting. Sounds like I might ought to put the Lime/Lemon/Juice back in. I did some home run, cable upgrades today from DA to mission critical locations. Channel 3 (24) came back so it made a difference.

Here is the connection diagram

Without PA
7698 - coax RG6 50' DA
A. coax RG6 37' dual splitter to Hopper & LG TV
B. coax RG6 23' SiliconDust HDHomeRun Extend
C,D,E,F doesn't matter

With PA
7698 - coax RG6 3' - PA - coax RG6 50' - PowerInserter - Attenuator - DA. I have the Power/Attenuator/DA connection with double female connectors so no cable between them.

I don't have a ground block, sounds like I should have one. Should that be on the tower ground or the home ground. The tower has it's own ground stake.

I was planning on putting the antenna back up this week but will hold off to try out some of the suggestions coming. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT. Please give the others my thanks and tell them I'm now aware of the thread, I'm reading and plan on following suggestions.
Thank you for the additional information.

I think the coax should be grounded with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground for electrical safety and to help reject interference.

Please let me know if you can see the images I posted: a map in post #2 and 2 reports and 2 terrain profiles in post #9. In the past, a poster who was not yet able to post could not see images derived from an attachment. If you can't see them, I can show them another way using my image host.

In your case, you need to do all of the modifications suggested for optimum results. A preamp is needed because your signals are weak, an FM filter is needed to reduce FM interference, and grounding the coax is needed to reject interference. If you leave any one of them out, you reduce your chances for improved reception.

You mention an attenuator after the power inserter. How many dB is it and why is it there?

A corrected FM report shows KHOT FM at -14.0 dBm instead of -13.7 dBm; still very strong.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/6...2/Radar-FM.png
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Old 10-Sep-2018, 2:49 PM   #11
JoeAZ
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Rabbit73, AdTech and others, thanks so much for your
help. It is ALWAYS appreciated, even if we should
disagree.
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Old 10-Sep-2018, 5:01 PM   #12
ADTech
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Quote:
even if we should disagree.
Hey, there are usually more ways than one to "skin a cat", provided you can catch it, of course...
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 2:36 AM   #13
rabbit73
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From niv by PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
No, I cannot see the pictures, I cannot subscribe to the thread, I do not receive notification of private messages, Iíve been banished to the bad lands. :-) But I am checking regularly.

Results so far. I donít have a real good way to measure signal strength. I have an EyeTV hybrid module that I can plug into my laptop which gives a separate quality and strength reading. How accurate it is . . . who knows? The LG TV has the most sensitive tuner so I can compare some results with that. The upgraded cable run to the LG TV / Hooper OTA tuner on one and the Silicon Dust tuner on the other brought flakey 5 (17) to a more stable level on all and brought Tucson 4 (23) from very flaky to just flaky on all. LG TV now picks up 3 (24) which gets lost along with 12 when the antenna is at the lower height, none of the others pickup 3 (24). This morning prior to installing the grounding block 3 (24) on the LG was unwatchable, breaking up all over the place. With the grounding block just occasional tearing of the picture so improvement there. I put the PA back on line. 3 (24) has gone away on the LG, 5 (17) becomes marginal on Hopper OTA and Silicon Dust Tuner.

I had put the attenuator in the first PA setup because somewhere I had read (???) that with an attenuator you could find the sweet spot between boosted signal and input overload so I had put it in thinking I might be able to dial in the signal. It can go from 0 - 20 db. I donít have it in at the moment. Also I have 5 (17) up on my computer screen via the Silicon Dust tuner and the PA has turned it into a flakey condition. It comes and goes.

Current config 7698 - 3í cable - PA - 50í cable - Power Inserter/Ground block/DA all tethered together, no cables between.

I have a Channel Plus Low Pass Filter LPF-380 Bandpass 0-380 MHz. Will that do anything for the FM trap? I suspect it would be the opposite of what I'm looking for. If not Iíll order the suggested FM trap setup from Solid Signals.

ADTech made the suggestion of moving the tower which is not an option. Iím on a hill, the tower is at the highest point on the hill. Other tower locations would move it down the hill and the houses across the street are 2 story houses which would be a worse. Current blocking house is 1 story. Till the house was built I had a nice window to South Mountain.

He also Mentioned not being impressed with the DAís maximum input power. That could be why some channels are dropping off with the PA in line. What would be a good DA for this situation?

As was before I think I am getting less performance on the system with the PA in place. Channel 12 is no where to be seen but I donít expect to see it until the antenna is raised to itís full height. All experimenting will be done at the 33í height because it is a monumental task to raise the antenna. Once itís up, itís staying up, Iím getting too old for this. :-)

The most important device would be the Silicon Dust tuner. That is what would be recorded and the Plex DVR removes commercials. 2nd in line would be the Hopper OTA, being a recording backup with the LG TV coming in 3rd. I just bypassed the DA and went directly from the Antenna to the Silicon Dust tuner with the same result as going through the DA so Iím not sure that input overload would be the answer to the reduced performance with the PA in.

I hope Iím not rambling here, Iím just thinking of things to try as I type. I will wait to see if the filter that I have is useful. I actually thought I might have an FM trap which is how I found the Low Pass Filter when I was rummaging through the draws. Will order if what I have isnít useful.

Thanks again.
I will try to redo the photos so that you can see them.
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 4:33 PM   #14
ADTech
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Quote:
I have a Channel Plus Low Pass Filter LPF-380 Bandpass 0-380 MHz. Will that do anything for the FM trap?
No. That LPF will wipe out ALL of your UHF reception.
Quote:
What would be a good DA for this situation?
Unless you have an extraordinary signal distribution system with lots of losses, avoid adding a DA and use a passive splitter instead with the mast-mounted PA.


I'd really start with the FM trap (or HLSJs) on the input of the Juice. For convenience, I'd also leave the PA at the base of the tower since I'm also getting too old to climb ladders unnecessarily. The insertion loss of that downlead prior to the amp would just be a necessary evil that could be later addressed when details are finally ironed out.



Note: I've turned off my private messaging again due to a persistent spammer.
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 6:08 PM   #15
rabbit73
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From niv by PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
No, I cannot see the pictures, I cannot subscribe to the thread, I do not receive notification of private messages, I’ve been banished to the bad lands. :-) But I am checking regularly.
Here are the pictures again, using links from my image host; I hope you can see them:

This map is in post #2:



These two report images are in post #9:





and these two terrain profiles are also in post #9:





and one new one:



Can you see them now, niv?
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 6:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
OK, Solid Signals ridiculous pricing on shipping just cost them a sale. $9 shipping for a $6 sale. I balked at the $8.99 shipping for the $8.99 variable attenuator but when I ended up buying the Juice PA I could just add the attenuator on for the same $8.99 shipping. They just sent it out in a padded bag that would be $4.95 tops in shipping so that's a hefty handling fee. Makes me think twice about buying anything from Solid Signals. I've got a Trisonic FM Trap coming in from Ebay, should be in by Monday. Even found a $5 off coupon so whole thing came out to $8.30. What a deal :-) ...........after seeing the picture on eBay I know I've got one of these kicking around. You can never find things when you're looking for them. :-)
I don't have the specs for the Trisonic FM Trap; hope it works as well as the HLSJ.
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Old 11-Sep-2018, 11:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
Yes that is my location and yes you can post it in the thread. Thanks
Thank you for your permission; nice tower.





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Old 12-Sep-2018, 2:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
Yes now I can see the pictures! The tower in 2011 looks a little on the low side. I donít remember when, apparently after 2011, at the top of the tower section is a 30í 3 part telescoping mast. The bottom section lowers down into the tower via a crank and pulley system. Right now the antenna is just above the top of the tower.

I donít have a good tool for measuring the signal, I get conflicting data. There are 6 cable runs in the house going to 4 TVís, 1 tuner and a FM radio. Yes FM comes off of the 7698. The FM trap is due in on Friday. I will be able to find out very quickly if it works. There are 2 primary runs. Most important one is a 23í home run to the Silicon Dust Tuner (SDT). Then theres a 37í run to a dual splitter -3.5db per leg that feeds LG TV and Dish Hopper OTA tuner. Other 4 runs are in the doesnít really matter category.

On the SDT Iíve tried with no PA through the DA, with PA through DA, with PA no DA no splitter, then through unbalanced 3 way splitter on both the 3.5 & 7 leg. All 3 legs are terminated so there are no termination issues. Ch 5 (17) CBS is the most problematic of the stations coming in, it comes and goes. (Ch 12 & 3 (24) donít come in at current height) Itís best performance is with no PA through the DA. All this is at 33í I guess everything changes at 58í but Iím trying to get the best performance possible before putting it back up..
Thank you for the additional information. Looking forward to your next test results.

Glad that you can now see the photos.
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Old 13-Sep-2018, 11:27 PM   #19
rabbit73
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
Here are the results of todays experimentation. I realigned the antenna to match up with the SignalLines picture. I have to note, any time I work on the tower with the mast down I have a greater appreciation of ballerinas. There is no ladder involved, I climb the tower. I have a safety belt so I'm strapped in. Mast down, I cannot get my foot in so I'm always on my toes. When I come down off the tower my calves are screaming. :-) My prior alinement was a degree or two off. That came up with some interesting results.

All results have the PA on line. I might experiment tomorrow with it off line. Going through the DA to the SDT Ch 3 (24) was there, Ch 5 (16) went away, opposite of before. All others (8,10, 15, 45, 61) were there.

Now the starling results. Just for grins I checked out the LG TV. 3, 5, 8, 10, 15, 45, 61 were all there, AND SO WAS 12!!!! Barely but I never expected to see it. Trying to measure it is what drives me up a wall. The LG has a signal meter. Shows Strength and Quality. Through the DA S 54 Q 17-19; Direct from antenna S 54 Q 20-32; Splitter 3.5 leg S 54 Q 19-25; 7.0 leg S 54 Q 20-38. Q readings are always bouncing all over the place. S pretty much stayed at 54 occasionally going to 55 no matter how the signal was being provided. It would seem that the Q would drop when I went from the 3.5 leg to the 7 leg. I suppose it’s all atmospherics, not being able to test all at the same time.

The Hopper OTA Tuner there was no 3, 5, & 12. Then I tried a direct antenna feed to the SDT and both 3 and 5 were gone. I’ve gone back to my default going through the DA until the next round of tests. Any suggestions on what to try?
Quote:
Ch 5 (16) went away
KPHO, virtual channel 5.1, is real channel 17, isn't? If you are going to use the virtual channel number, please use the decimal form to avoid confusion.
Quote:
I suppose it’s all atmospherics, not being able to test all at the same time.
That's true; OTA signals are constantly changing.

Sounds like the LG has the best tuner.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2018 at 2:02 AM.
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Old 13-Sep-2018, 11:48 PM   #20
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by niv
Took the PA off line. No Channel 12 on LG. Got 3 but no 5 on SDT but 3 very flakey through DA. No 3 or 5 straight from antenna so didn't bother to try through splitter. First time I've seen positive result from PA (or lack of PA showing negative results, either or :-) Also found a signal strength meter on the SDT. Will put the PA back on line tomorrow when I put the FM trap on. I've included a url to a pic of the antenna fins. Should they be horizontal or vertical or does it matter. Right now they're every which way. Hopefully the url works https://tinyurl.com/y8c8onww
These fins:



They look OK to me, but what are these extra wires? Are they connected to the coax downlead for the antenna?



Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2018 at 12:27 AM.
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