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Old 11-Aug-2011, 1:17 AM   #1
whiskeyhill
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Question Antenna recommendation

Hello,

This is for my parents' one-story house. They currently have an RCA-ANT751 mounted in their attic, giving good reception. Their roof is at a 'workable' pitch and height for installing an outdoor antenna, with plenty of clearance for a mast. What do you recommend?
And just for grins, I rescanned their channel lineup last week, when lo-and-behold there was WWMT (3.1) coming clear in as a bell from 100 miles away, ENE, from Western MI. It lasted for the evening, and poof, gone of course.

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Old 11-Aug-2011, 2:49 AM   #2
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What's the call sign of the weakest station your parents need/want? (That they don't receive reliably with the ANT-751.)
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Old 11-Aug-2011, 6:03 AM   #3
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

I agree with GUM.
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Old 18-Aug-2011, 2:44 AM   #4
whiskeyhill
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The antenna is pointed to roughly 90 degrees in order to receive the signals from downtown Chicago, as well as channel 56.1 from NW Indiana. There is a station, WPVN, on 24.1 digital, that is 16.2 miles north (352 degrees) that my dad is interested in having.
I have not adjusted the antenna to see if it can be picked up, for fear of losing channel 56.1. I suppose I could do that first.
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Old 18-Aug-2011, 11:06 PM   #5
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

The tvfool radar and channel list report is showing 2 WPVN's , one at 77 degree magnetic compass and one at 352 degree magnetic compass.
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Old 19-Aug-2011, 2:37 AM   #6
whiskeyhill
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I e-mailed one of their people, and I was told that their transmitter is in Schaumburg, IL. Therefore, it is the one at 352 degree magnetic compass.
The fellow recommended the following equipment:

Channel Master 4228HD - 15.6 db average gain
Radio Shack Antenna Amplifier Model:15-259 with 33 db average gain
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Old 20-Aug-2011, 9:52 PM   #7
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

Well Ok then. I recommend a AntennaCraft U8000 with no preamplifier. Aim the antenna at 352 magnetic compass. You will need to run a separate coax from the antenna to the Tv and connect a Remote control A/B antenna switch to the two antennas at the location of the Tv. A/B antenna switch AB27RS or radioshack 15-1968. The U8000 will also receive WYIN-DT 17 PBS through the back side of the U8000 antenna.
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Old 20-Aug-2011, 10:37 PM   #8
GroundUrMast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeyhill View Post
I e-mailed one of their people, and I was told that their transmitter is in Schaumburg, IL. Therefore, it is the one at 352 degree magnetic compass.
The fellow recommended the following equipment:

Channel Master 4228HD - 15.6 db average gain
Radio Shack Antenna Amplifier Model:15-259 with 33 db average gain
Based on the predicted signal levels, that or JC's suggestion of the U8000 will be plenty of antenna.

I don't think you will need any amplifier though. (Save the money.) In fact I would expect the RS amp listed, to overload and cause trouble. I'd prove the need first, then I would be careful to use an amp with high input capability.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 21-Aug-2011 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 20-Aug-2011, 10:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Candle View Post
Well Ok then. I recommend a AntennaCraft U8000 with no preamplifier.
That should work.
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 3:35 AM   #10
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I'm having fair results with the U8000 mounted in the attic, and had been considering a chimney mount. Not being eager to play with the chimney strap set-up, I'm now leaning toward a gable end mount. This would put the antenna within feet (vertical) of what the chimney mount would be, and would most likely be easier to install (for me). It would be mounted at the NE corner of the house, resulting in shorter cable runs.
My concern is the grounding setup. While the RG6 would enter the house near the base of the bracket, I would need a good length of grounding wire to reach . With the odd contour of the house, I may need 50 or 60 feet. Also, is it correct that I would need to run two lengths of ground wire- one from the antenna, and one from the grounding block? The terrain at the NE corner of the house is concrete and/or asphalt, hence the long distance to get to soil. A ground rod outside of the basement sub-panel is the closest option.
If this setup is possible, how should I run the copper wire? Along the roof shingles? This is a brick house with aluminum gutters. And, where can I find the necessary #8 or #10 copper wire- stranded, I assume? I believe GroundUrMast says shielded or unshielded. I know the idea is to run the copper with as few bends as possible, but how to secure it, and cross over the aluminum gutter?
Having said all this, I'll add that the chimney is closer to and is a straighter-shot to the ground post.
Thank you.
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 7:52 AM   #11
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The electrical department at the big box home centers have all the wire, staples (including clips with masonry nails that can be driven in to mortar if needed) and connectors needed for this task. Bare or insulated #10 copper is the smallest diameter that should be used. I use solid, but stranded will work fine.

I advocate that the mast be connected to the existing electrical service ground system. That almost always requires running more than a few feet of wire. If you use a gable mount, can you run the wire were the soffit and wall meet, all the way around to the electrical service? Or, down near the ground then around? (It's hard to guess the solution without seeing the building.) I try to avoid running coax across a roof, especially in a manner that could catch debris and cause water to back up under a shingle.

Even though it may add some coax to the total run, I generally recommend that the coax run from the antenna to the grounding block which should be located within a few feet of the existing electrical service ground. Only after passing through the ground block should the coax penetrate the building.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901
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Old 29-Jun-2012, 12:22 PM   #12
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I mount standard 3" stand off brackets on the chimley using "cut bolts" available at Lowes use 1/4 X 1 1/2. These work very well and eliminate the ugly chimley straps.
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Old 30-Jun-2012, 1:50 AM   #13
whiskeyhill
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I will ask about #8 or #10 copper wire at Menard's tomorrow, or at Home Depot the next time I am there. The thinnest gauge wire I have seen at either store, by me anyway, is #6.
It's a tough call, but a chimney mount would eliminate a lot of copper, and a lot of excessive RG6 runs. Signals Unlimited, can you elaborate a little on the system you mentioned? Is it basically two standard 'W' shaped brackets? Please let me know about the 'cut bolts'. Thank you.
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Old 30-Jun-2012, 2:20 AM   #14
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Wire gauge numbers are counter-intuitive. The larger the number, the thinner the wire. #10 is smaller than #6.
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Old 6-Jul-2012, 2:37 AM   #15
whiskeyhill
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Maybe it's a regional thing, but neither Home Depot nor Menards in my area sell copper wire thinner than #6. I may have to strike out on my own and maybe check an electrical-supply store. The stuff I see for sale on line comes in lengths way beyond what I need. I called a few scrap-metal places nearby to inquire. One of them laughed at me! I'm open to suggestions as to where to find this elusive #8 or #10 copper. Thanks.
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Old 6-Jul-2012, 3:28 AM   #16
GroundUrMast
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Who knows, maybe in the Chicago area, wire is a controlled substance...

A typical house is wired with #12 or #14 gauge wire. #12 wire is larger than #14, the first is rated to be connected to a 20 Amp circuit breaker while the #14 is only able to be connected to a 15 Amp breaker. An electric clothes dryer and residential water heater is usually supplied by #10 gauge wire fed by a 30 amp circuit breaker.

If it's a regional thing, I'll be quite surprised. I suspect the person in electrical may know less than you about wire and grounding. The Home Depot here in my end of Seattle sells a wide range of copper wire product starting at the small #14 up to and beyond the much heavier #2 (which is usually used to connect service entrance panels and heavy industrial loads) The stock number at Home Depot for a whole roll of #10 bare copper wire is SKU# 712-534. Next time I go to the local store here in Seattle, I'll get the 'per foot' SKU (store keeping unit, ie. stock number) for you. I expect to find it in the electrical department on or near the 'wire machine' which is a motorized storage rack with spools of various types of wire than are sold by the foot.

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...kuId=202895697

I'll also get the SKU for the same wire with green insulation.

(After I retired, my wife put me in adult day care at Home Depot for about a year. It was the best deal she could find to get me out of her hair for a bit. )
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Old 6-Jul-2012, 4:15 AM   #17
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http://www.menards.com/main/electric...924-c-6441.htm

The above link implies the Menards 'Hodgkins' store has a 50' spool in stock.

And this link http://www.menards.com/main/electric...936-c-6441.htm is for a 100' spool.

I've got to believe the big box home centers have this by the foot.
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Old 10-Jul-2012, 3:32 AM   #18
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#10 bare copper wire, by the foot, at The Home Depot is stock number 712-596. Here in the Seattle area, they're charging 38 / foot.

The person that unlocked the wire machine knew nothing about wire or electrical... yikes!

It was all I could do just to talk them through operating the wire-machine long enough to get the roll of #10 bare down to eye level. But they were polite, and wrote the number down for me.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 11-Jul-2012 at 4:28 AM. Reason: adding to the tale, sp
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Old 11-Jul-2012, 2:48 AM   #19
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->ALL<- Questions and Answers about Broadcast Tv Reception and More.

Copper wire is stolen from the big box stores. Some stores are not stocking bare copper wire that is used for grounding and other sizes of wire that have less insulation and more copper.

A Lowes that I visit often . If you are buying copper wire , a employee will walk you to the check out counter and make sure you pay for it.

Employees will say that there is no copper wire , so the employee does not have to get tangled up in a issue of walking you to the check out counter or stolen wire.

Thieves are going into buildings and taking the copper wire and copper pipes. You come in the next day and the walls are sliced open and the copper is gone.

Last edited by Electron; 13-Jul-2012 at 3:25 AM.
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Old 14-Jul-2012, 12:40 AM   #20
whiskeyhill
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Okay, a reliable source tells me that they have set aside the needed amount of copper wire for me.
Now, I used to have the Antennacraft U-8000 propped in the attic of my old house. I recently moved, and want to do the roof mount. As it goes with moving house, I am unable to find the unopened package of hardware for mounting the antenna to the mast- that goes for the rubber boot to cover the coax connection. I'm willing to buy them at this point. I see Radio Shack sells simular u-bolts and brackets, but they are not zinc plated. Any recommendations so I know that I am buying the correct hardware, and with quality? Thanks.
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