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Old 21-May-2014, 1:25 PM   #1
cov1978
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antenna advice/distant but strong signal

Hi everyone. I am new to the site and would like some advice on what would be the best antenna for me for my location. Here is my tvfool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6f74b908a90

I am half way between Los Angeles and San Diego and the broadcast towers for L.A. are 60 miles away, but the signal still looks to be pretty strong from the report. Strangely, the report does not change whether I enter the height of 10 ft or 30 ft. I mostly want the L.A. channels and the San Diego ones are mostly the same networks anyway. All the channels I would want are in the green. Looks like I need an antenna with both UHF and high VHF to get those channels, and I would prefer to mount it in my attic if possible, though roof access is possible too if you think that would be necessary. The report seems to indicate that an indoor antenna should work, but those antennas normally have listed ranges of about 35-50 miles and I am concerned because,, even though my signal is strong, I am 60 miles out. Should that make a difference?

I have read on your site about the ANT751 but the listed range is 35 miles, and the C2v, but listed range is 50 miles. Winegard tells me they recommend the flatwave but have not heard enough about that one on your site. I have no obstacles in my attic except that the antenna would be facing the side of my neighbors house to the north. No trees or hills in the way and I basically live on top of a hill. From my roof with a mast I could get slightly above my neighbor's house, if needed. I appreciate any advice you can give me. Thanks.
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Old 21-May-2014, 2:01 PM   #2
Tower Guy
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Here are my thoughts.

ANT751 a bit low on UHF Gain for an attic install. Should work outside fine.
C2V too low on VHF gain for the attic but OK for outdoors.
Flat wave might work outside but not in the attic.

You need extra gain in the attic to overcome losses and multipath. Adequate antennas include HBU 44 or HD 7694P.
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Old 21-May-2014, 6:15 PM   #3
cov1978
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Hi Tower Guy. Thanks for your quick response. I checked out the specs on the 2 antennas you mentioned. The 7694 is about 10 ft by 3 ft and would be pretty long for by attic. The HBU 44 is about 5.5 ft by 3 ft and would fit but the specs say it has an estimated range of only 35 miles VHF and 25 miles UHF. Are you sure it would pick up both VHF and UHF signals from 60 miles away? Are than any other antennas that would do the job better but are still about that size? Thanks
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Old 21-May-2014, 6:35 PM   #4
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the 7694p is 65" long and 35" wide
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Old 21-May-2014, 6:43 PM   #5
ADTech
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If you're sure about putting it in the attic, two things to consider:

1) You might want to bump up a size on the antenna.
2) Should you need to pull the antenna back out of the attic, pick one that is easy to fold back up.
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Old 21-May-2014, 7:37 PM   #6
cov1978
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Looks like I switched the specs. The 7694 is the smaller one and the hbu44 is the 10 footer. I guess my question relates to whether the 7694 would reach 60 miles out.
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Old 21-May-2014, 9:25 PM   #7
GroundUrMast
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Based on your report, the 7694 is plenty of antenna, outdoors, clear of obstructions. The Winegard antenna can be difficult to re-fold... That can be a problem if you try it in the attic and then conclude it needs to move outside.

The Antennacraft HBU series antennas are easier to re-fold.

I'd have no problem using the larger HBU-44... Added antenna gain is better than amplifier gain because any amplifier will add noise and distortion to the signal. Antenna gain does not suffer that impairment.

I would avoid an antenna mounting location that forces me to aim into either my neighbors or my structure.

If you want to have a shot at receiving KHIZ-LD on real CH-2, and any other L-VHF signal that's out there, consider the HD1800, HD1850 and HD7084P.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 21-May-2014 at 9:30 PM.
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Old 21-May-2014, 10:58 PM   #8
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A Simple reception Situation.

Your location has Receivable Digital Broadcast Tv Stations Channels in All 3 Tv Bands.

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

The Current UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

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Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , by the roof and building in the direction of , North West.

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net.

HD850 All Channel Antenna aimed at about 322 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a cell phone , tablet , or etc. compass.

---------

A antenna system amplifier will not be required for , 1 , 2 , 3 , Tv's connected.

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

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Here are some and not all above the roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.
Install the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html.
Install the , ronard(4712-50-10) , 10 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html.
Install the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

http://www.ronard.com

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Home Depot has , 10 foot 6 inch , 1 and 3/8 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast pipe , the cost is low at about 10 dollars.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is Install the Antenna at a Location that has the Least Amount to No Amount of Obstructions of Any Type or Kind in the Directions of Reception Including Your Own Roof and Building.
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Old 22-May-2014, 12:46 PM   #9
tomfoolery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cov1978 View Post
I guess my question relates to whether the 7694 would reach 60 miles out.
I think you have it backwards - the antenna doesn't 'reach out' - it merely collects up whatever reaches IT.

Click on one of the stations in your fool report, and look at the terrain. Those transmitters are on a tall hill (mountain), with a direct line of sight to your antenna, all the way down to the bottom of the yellow with KHTV (real 27) and a NM value of 28.9 dB. That's an enviable situation.

There's a primer on this site somewhere that I can't seem to find discussing NM figures and how it relates to reception, but the takeaway is that distance by itself means almost nothing. How much signal gets to your antenna means everything, tempered by how badly it's degraded by refraction (it's not), or multi-path (doesn't seem to be any), or any other negative phenomena, of which there doesn't seem to be much if any. Some of those variables are taken into account in the NM figures for each station, along with effective power at your location.

A '30 mile range' antenna may not be able to receive a very weak signal on the other side of a big hill when mounted in a canyon with trees in the way and aluminium siding all around it, or even a super strong signal originating less than a mile away in midtown Manhattan (man made canyons - a common problem there), while the same antenna may work very well at 60 miles or more when receiving very strong transmitted signals with nothing around it at all to mess with the signal. Like your location.

I'd ignore the distance ratings, and listen to the folks making specific suggestions.

Last edited by tomfoolery; 22-May-2014 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 22-May-2014, 1:17 PM   #10
cov1978
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Thank you all for your great advice. It sounds like I am best off with placing an antenna on my roof rather than the attic, but I do not need an 11 footer for my purposes and can get away with a medium sized one, and I don't need an amp. I will choose one and let you know how it works.
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Old 22-May-2014, 5:12 PM   #11
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tomfoolery explains the job of the antenna very well, "...the antenna doesn't 'reach out' - it merely collects up whatever reaches IT."

Amplifiers do not 'pull' signal from the air, the antenna or the coax connected to the amp input. Amplifiers are for overcoming loss in cable and splitters... They can not and will not improve the performance of an antenna. If you have long cable runs and are feeding many TVs, then an amplifier may be helpful. If not, I don't think an amplifier would be money well spent.

I'd use a large antenna, in part to avoid the need for any amplifier. Just as I would dig my well deep enough to reach an ample supply of clean water, because I don't want to pump mud to my tap.

The HD850 is the smallest all channel antenna I would consider, but the HD7084P and HD1850 are not overkill if you are feeding more than one tuner.
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Old 8-Jun-2014, 5:44 AM   #12
cov1978
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I went with the 7694, on a 5 foot mast above my roof facing 322 degrees magnetic north. Works great. Gets a lot more channels than I thought.
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Old 8-Jun-2014, 5:09 PM   #13
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Thanks for the update...
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