OTA UHF Help - Tacoma, WA

[MattZuke]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b947facfc5a22

First time buyer seeking assistance for a friend. We have an existing VHF/UHF Yagi of unknown make (freecycle) bolted to the chimney with broom stick. We can get VHF 9 and 13, but not 11 but I'm guessing location is the issue. For this post I'm asking specifically for help getting UHF.

Channel UHF 27 (PBS 28) I can pick up with a stick. Komo 4 (UHF 38), King 5 (UHF 48), Kong 16 (UHF31) , KIRO 7 (UFH 39), pretty much everything at 8 degrees true I'm specifically buying this antenna for.

Everything at 13 degrees true Except VHF 11 is groovy.

I'm "thinking" of investing in a bowtie antenna, proper mount. I could swing a Winegard WGDHD8800, but the packages from Solid Single look attractive. The HDB8X Lite kit with tripod specifically or DB8 Bundle with J Mount. These are at the upper end of my budget, $100-$120.

I'll be laying new wire to two locations. TV Room has three devices, HDTV (toshiba 42HM95), dedicated tuner box to listen to the news without using the bulb. I also have a Trisonic "36db" amplifier and FM Trap.

So the priority at the moment is UHF antenna specifically for everything listed at 8 degrees true and the mounting hardware, existing Yagi likely mounted on the same staff if possible.

Thanks in advance...

MattZ

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Aim the VHF/UHF antenna at about 358 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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Install a New matching transformer (balun) to the antenna.

Connect a New Continues length of RG-6 coax to the new transformer and run the New Continues length of coax through a open door or window direct to 1 Tv.

The Digital Tv Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , often named the ~ ATSC Channels ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some digital Tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable Tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable Tv channels.

Go into the Digital Tv Setup Menu and select ~ ATSC Channels ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~.

Channel scan for , ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations:Channels.

[MattZuke]

Thanks for the detailed advice. I think some of it was lost in translation. Are you suggesting I "should" be able to use my existing unknown antenna and not buy a new one?

I am confused about "new continues length" and "theta hong transformer".

I'm going to guess you mean new continuous length, which yeah, there is no coupler between antenna and TV 1, well, except the splitter for all the gear. TV 2 doesn't exist presently so that splitter can be removed. The Cable is 3 months old. The balun is original though.

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Yes I see.

That is some crazy typo wording.

I corrected the typos.

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Yes install a New matching transformer and the recommendation of New coax.

And run the new coax through a open door or window direct to 1 Tv.

The reason is to prove reception.

Is the antenna damaged broken??

Digital tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner , do Double Rescan.

www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

[MattZuke]

Originally Posted by teleview

Is the antenna damaged broken??

One fin is missing, but works great for UHF 33, VHF 9.1 & 13, UHF 27.

But if you're suggesting I can use my existing antenna I'll focus on a new mount so 358 magnetic doesn't point through trees, replace the matching transformer and coax, clear the tuner, and do a double rescan.

[GroundUrMast]

Given the missing element, and the poor performance on real CH-11, I'd be inclined toward replacing the antenna with one that is matched to the current channel assignments in use. A new install here in the Puget Sound area calls for both UHF and High-VHF capability.

For an installation that has to account for nearby trees, I'd err on the large side. I'd use the combination of an Antennas Direct DB8e + Antennacraft Y10713 + Antennas Direct EU385CF UHF/VHF Antenna Combiner. I'd also start with new coax outdoors.

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I am not their to see the antenna , if it is broken or not , that is why I am asking.

Replacing the matching transformer and coax and running the coax directly to 1 Tv is a way to Test reception by eliminating problems.

The idea is to keep it simple.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception with a Tv Antenna in the directions of reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Tv Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

As you can see , looking at the Digital Current Plus Pending Applications Included Radar Map the Main Groups Tv Stations are to the , North West , North , North East.

[MattZuke]

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

I'd use the combination of an Antennas Direct DB8e + Antennacraft Y10713 + Antennas Direct EU385CF UHF/VHF Antenna Combiner. I'd also start with new coax outdoors.

Okay, so you believe the DB8e is sufficient for real 33(ION), 39(CBS), 38(ABC), 25(KZJO), 48(CBS), with the 5 degree difference? If so great.

[GroundUrMast]

If not for the trees, the DB8e would be more than enough UHF capability. The panels can be adjusted to optimize the beam-width so that Queen Anne Hill, Capitol Hill and Tiger Mountain are all covered. Take a look at https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...s/DB8E-TDS.pdf With the panels set to about 20° to 30° off broadside, you get three strong forward lobes that can be aimed at the three main groups of signals north of your location.

For High-VHF (real CH-9, 11 & 13) the Y10713 is also on the large side, but not overkill if you have to contend with the trees.

You can certainly try the less expensive route suggested by teleview... if replacement of a balun (matching transformer) and/or a section of coax provides reliable reception, I'd hate to have talked you into spending hard earned $s that did not need to be.

[MattZuke]

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

You can certainly try the less expensive route suggested by teleview... if replacement of a balun (matching transformer) and/or a section of coax provides reliable reception, I'd hate to have talked you into spending hard earned $s that did not need to be.

No worries, presuming a Radio Shack balun (15-1230) is adequate I'll do that first. Given I saw no improvement using freshly cut cable from Click I'm thinking it's not a cable problem.

I can "just" swing a DB8e with a tripod if the $6.00 solution doesn't pan out. Additional Yagi will have to wait.

Thanks much.

[tomfoolery]

Originally Posted by MattZuke

I can "just" swing a DB8e with a tripod if the $6.00 solution doesn't pan out. Additional Yagi will have to wait.

You may find that you get the h-vhf stations ok with just the DB8e. I get the two in my area using a DB4e, with NM figures a bit higher than yours (but from inside my attic), using a TV that has a reputation for having a not-so-good OTA tuner. Heck, I was getting the vhf stations with pretty good stability with just a tiny bow tie with no reflector hanging off a collar tie in the attic from it's own cable, using 100 ft of new RG-6 and no splitters.

So you might get lucky, but you can always add a cut-to-band antenna later for the h-vhf stations if need be, which has the advantage of being aimed separately from the UHF antenna as needed. No downside to trying with just the UHF antenna, is what I'm saying.

Oh, and lose the splitter, especially if it was part of a satellite system.

[MattZuke]

Originally Posted by tomfoolery

Oh, and lose the splitter, especially if it was part of a satellite system.

No worries. I totally don't want to spend more than I have to.

Here is where I get a little confused. The final game plan is to supply signal to two rooms, one room with HDTV, HDTV Tuner, and PC HDTV Tuner. Room two is unrented so can be ignored for now. How else but a splitter can I accomplish this task? I imagine I "could" apply a 5 way splitter inside the house, route room 1 to room 2. It would be a shorter run to TV 1.

Unless you mean ditch the splitters for troubleshooting, then yeah, there is no coupler in the wall jack, just cable and a grommet, equal to running a cable through a window, but on that side of the house there are only picture windows, they don't open.

The splitters were provided free of charge from the local cable company. In fact I've NEVER bought a splitter, so if you have a suggestion, I'm all ears.

[MattZuke]

Originally Posted by teleview

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I am not their to see the antenna , if it is broken or not , that is why I am asking.

Sorry I didn't see this post earlier.

I believe it is broken. 2 years ago I tried it in the front yard and it seemed to pull everything in, I didn't note which specific channels, but someone tripped on the cable and fell 5 feet. Since that time it's been dropped numerous times. I put it in the garage, someone, presuming a roommate, moved it outside, no less than 7 times, no less falling a distance of 4 feet. A large dog has dragged it down the street, neighbors kids borrowed it and pretended it was a paper airplane, later a horse. It has a fin missing, the long arms of rolled steel are bent, and by bent I mean to the very edge of breaking off. But it still pulls in Real 13, Real 9, not Real 11, and I have a choice between real 39, or real 25 depending on where I aim it.

But this Saturday I'll follow you advise since I can say I've never done a double rescan, nor replaced the balin, and use a magnetic compass.

The kids are gone, as is that roommate.

[tomfoolery]

Originally Posted by MattZuke

Unless you mean ditch the splitters for troubleshooting, then yeah, there is no coupler in the wall jack, just cable and a grommet, equal to running a cable through a window, but on that side of the house there are only picture windows, they don't open.

That's what I meant.

[GroundUrMast]

Splitters provided by the cable company are fine in just about all OTA systems.

It's unlikely you'll find a 5-way splitter. I'd use a 4-way and feed the shortest runs via a 2-way fed off a port from the 4-way. If needed a Channel Master CM-3410 can be added between the antenna and input of the 4-way.

Satellite grade splitters are not a problem. Diplexers and multiswitches are incompatible with OTA frequencies.

[MattZuke]

First off, thanks folks for your valuable assistance.

I was able to determine I did indeed have a faulty balun, marked Archer. Reception improved greatly, and by greatly I mean from totally absent to undisplayable. With the amplifier intermittent real 31, 38, 39, 48.

Ordered the DB8e with tripod, will buy VHF antenna and combiner at a later time. I do have a couple of questions.

1) Can one install those tripods at the edge of a roof, directly penetrating the eves only having one hole in the actual roof?

2) The road travels due north south, and I have 4 peeks to choose from, two at 20ft, two at ~25ft. The 20ft peek is closer to the road suggesting better line of sight, and would be the shortest run to TV 1. Should I consider fewer trees over 5ft of height?