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Old 26-Dec-2012, 6:46 PM   #1
ny1329
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OTA in north Phoenix

Hi all,

I'm new to the this thread and to the Phoenix area. I am trying to set up an OTA in my attic because my HOA won't allow an antenna visible on the roof. My information is as follows:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cc49541e5307c4

I have an antenna run that is approx 30 feet which I can connect to a 4 Way splitter that was set up by the builder. I do have a tile roof and I'm thinking about solar in the future.

So my questions are best option for an attic antenna (I was thinking the RCA ANT751R or Antennas Direct C2-V-CJM ClearStream 2-V Long Range)? Do I need a preamp? Any other ideas? Thanks in advance and let me know if any more information would be helpful.

Kurt
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Old 26-Dec-2012, 9:12 PM   #2
teleview
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Attics Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will be a reception friendly environment.

Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install antennas above the roof.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

HOAs / Asho , housing coven-nuts , dead restricted housing , and etc. are well aware of the Federal Antenna Law.

Some keep their mouth shut about the law , Some straight out Lie and say there is no law , and some will say the Truth about the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install and use Broadcast Tv antennas of Any Size for Digital Broadcast Tv Reception so as to have - Reliable - Reception.

Above the roof in such a manner that the roof and the house are not blocking reception to the , south east.

Install a Winegard HD7694P antenna aimed at about 166 degree magnetic compass direction.
Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Here is a antenna mount that works well with tile roofs because it installs up high at the peak of the roof eave.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. Buy the ronard antenna mount at , http://www.solidsignal.com , by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard , http://www.ronard.com. If using a eave mount then use the #4560.

Or can use a J type antenna mount , Winegard DS 3000.
_______________

No preamp is required.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a common simple 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a common simple 3 way splitter.

For 4 Tv's connected use a common simple 4 way splitter.

_________________

The Tv antenna Cannot be connected to any coaxes that have any type or kind of active pay cable delivered services such as , cable Tv service , cable internet service , cable phone service , or any other type or kind of pay cable service.

Yes the coax cables that are in or on the house can be used with the Tv antenna , if there are no active pay cable services on the coax.

_________________

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Digital Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own house.

It is best to install the HD7694P antenna in such a manner that there are little obstructions to no obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own house.

The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Last edited by teleview; 28-Dec-2012 at 1:37 AM.
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Old 26-Dec-2012, 11:55 PM   #3
Stereocraig
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First of all, you can tell your HOA to pound sand.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-r...n-devices-rule

Secondly, antennas in an attic will provide attenuated and unpredictable performance at best.

Otherwise, the 751 is a favorite among some of the contributors around here. Not sure about the C 2 though. Maybe a C 4?
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Old 31-Dec-2012, 2:37 AM   #4
ny1329
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Update and more questions

So, I got the RCA ANT751 for Christmas. I have mounted and moved it 9 times in my attic (I know this isn't the best place, but I'm not ready to fight the HOA yet. I just moved in and have a million things to do). My cable run was terminated by my furnace and found my best reception was as far away from the furnace as possible. Anyway, I am missing three stations but only need one and would prefer the second and it would be nice to get the third. They are channel 15 (ABC), channel 51 (Ion) and channel 61 (CW). I have been able to get 15 and 51 at one or another time, but never with channel 5 or 45. I have never been able to get 61. So here are my questions?

Why am I missing these three when I get all the others?

Would an amplifier help? If so any suggestions?

Last, I only have two TV's, then second is older (2006), but has a digital tuner. It only will find about half the channels of the newer TV. Any idea why? Any ideas on how I can improve its performance?

Anyway, thanks Stereocraig and and Teleview for you responses. I am hoping I can figure this out. My wife is pressuring me to go back to satellite/cable if I can't get ABC.

Kurt

Last edited by ny1329; 31-Dec-2012 at 3:18 AM.
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Old 31-Dec-2012, 4:45 AM   #5
phone man
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If you're stuck with the antenna in the attic where the signal is poor, the best you can do is try to collect more signal with a larger antenna. An amplifier won't help. As a test you should mock up an outdoor installation with a clear view to the south and see what kind of results you get.

About the second TV not picking up as many channels. Can you simply trade locations and see if the poor performance follows the TV or stays with the location?
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Old 31-Dec-2012, 5:41 AM   #6
teleview
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The concrete tile roof and the stucko WIRE blocks Tv reception.
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Old 31-Dec-2012, 9:03 AM   #7
Stereocraig
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As far as the tuner on the 2006 TV is concerned, seems that I heard that there was a period, where mfrs weren't really concentrating on antenna signal quality, due to the majority of people using cable, or sat.

That said, yes, swapping out the two sets will be more indicative of the situation.

Concerning an outdoor antenna and your HOA, it's not like you need to ask their permission, since they would have the burden of proof, if they wanted to pursue things, since there is no such thing as proving your're right, just somebody else proving you're wrong.
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Old 31-Dec-2012, 5:53 PM   #8
ny1329
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More follow-up

So I moved my older TV to the newer TV's location. When I did a channel search, there was no change in the channels that it could pull in. So I am assuming the TV is the issue.

For the missing stations, any ideas on why I could get the other stations during one of my antenna moves, but then I can't at my present location?

I am assuming the signal is weak because my antenna is in the attic and that is why my thoughts on a pre-amp (I was thinking pre-amp and not an amp as stated in my earlier post).

Suggestions on another antenna? Would the HD7694P make much of a difference?

Anyway, thanks again.

Kurt
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Old 31-Dec-2012, 7:34 PM   #9
phone man
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You mentioned a four way splitter and then said something about two tv's. If you replaced the four way with a two way splitter you'd save 3 or 4 dB to each TV. That might help some but the signal bouncing around in the attic confusing the TV tuners is probably why you see improvement with some stations and problems with others when you move the antenna around. Some tuners handle multipath better than others and that might explain why one TV receives more channels.
You've got a beautiful tvfool report! Lot's of signal strength and all stations in one direction. You do not need an amplifier. A pre amp should be used to overcome signal loss over long coax runs. Amplifying a crappy signal is just more of a bad thing.

Just to see what's actually possible, go to the south side of your house, clamp the antenna to a step ladder, point it south, run the coax thru the window directly to a TV.

Last edited by phone man; 31-Dec-2012 at 7:49 PM.
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Old 1-Jan-2013, 7:52 AM   #10
Stereocraig
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DO NOT waste your money on a preamp quite yet.

Until you put the antenna up on the roof, you're probably fighting a losing battle.

Let me suggest an analogy that is easy to visualize.

Have you ever been to a club, or concert venue and went into the bathroom while the band was playing? Remember what the band sounded like while you were in there?

That's the quality of signal you're getting in your attic, except w/o the smell.


Again, with your HOA, there will be no fighting involved. If there is, they have the burden of proof and hopefully, are smart enough to avoid getting themselves in trouble.
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Old 4-Jan-2013, 8:24 PM   #11
ny1329
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More follow-up

So I finally got some time to move my antenna and TV. I set up the TV and antenna in the garage. I initially started w/ my older, smaller TV. It only pulled in 7 channels, but this is consistent no matter how many the newer TV could get. I swapped it out w/ newer TV and got 63 channels.

That makes it pretty clear what I need to do (you can respond w/ an "I told you so" if you want).

As for the older TV, clearly the tuner is old and I will likely need to buy a TV. I just have to sell the idea to my wife.

Anyway, thanks for everything and I'll let you know how things go.

KJ
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Old 4-Jan-2013, 8:57 PM   #12
teleview
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Coax cable is -->Always<--> Suspect of being bad.

Every time a spitter split takes place the signal strength is reduced.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

It is best to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

Concrete roof tiles and stucko Wire do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception.

Tv antennas are what receive the Tv transmissions.

Amplifiers are not Tv antennas and are not a substitute for a Tv antenna.

The Tv antenna -->needs<-- to be at a location that receives the best signal.

The Federal Antenna Law was written so that you and others do not have to hide antennas.

HOA's and others can not beat on you and make you hide antennas.

Last edited by teleview; 5-Jan-2013 at 1:34 PM.
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Old 5-Jan-2013, 1:48 AM   #13
phone man
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No "I told you so" here. Glad you ran a test in the garage. 63 channels! That's great. The antenna doesn't necessarily have to be high above the house to be effective. As long as you can get a clear shot to the south you should be OK. Hope you can find a sneaky inconspicuous place to mount it.
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Old 9-Jan-2013, 9:29 PM   #14
ny1329
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More help please

So my wife tells me she would prefer that the antenna is in the attic or in the back yard (she doesn't want it on the roof if possible and the backyard would require a long cable run, again not ideal). To try and make her happy, I tried a Winegard Flatwave and actually got all but one channel that I wanted (missing Channel 61). Unfortunately I have to place the antenna in one of my kid's rooms. Then by attaching it to the coax outlet in the room it feeds back to my four-way splitter and out to my two TV's. By then the signal is too weak. Sorry to rehash the amplifier thing, but in this case would an amplifier work. I have coverage, but the antenna is low output and can't overcome the long cable run and splitter? Anyway, I am open to ideas. If this fails, I will just have to talk to my wife, but, my options are either a long cable run or mounting on the side of the house which might attenuate my signal b/c of the house next to us (she really doesn't want it on the roof). Anyway, thanks.

Kurt
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Old 10-Jan-2013, 1:41 AM   #15
phone man
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Using the kids room coax outlet to back feed other jacks is fine. By using a four way splitter for two TV's you're losing signal. Because you're using a smaller antenna, every dB is precious. Try a two way splitter instead. Be sure the coax from the kids room is connected to the input. Be sure nothing else is connected to minimize loss.

Four way splitter loss 7 dB
Two way splitter loss 3.5 dB

You won't know until you try but it could make a difference.

Post edited and corrected. I got it in my head you were using an eight way splitter.

You can try a pre amp if you want but really and truly the job of the pre amp is to maintain the integrity of the original signal despite losses from distribution of the signal thru long coax runs and splitters. If you do buy one make sure the noise figure is 2 dB or less. Quality preamps will provide this spec, a lot of cheap ones will not.

Last edited by phone man; 10-Jan-2013 at 2:04 AM.
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