Help deciding on antenna(s) and Amp

[Marley]

Hello,

I am trying to figure out the best antenna setup to try. The more I read the more confused I become. I want to put up an outside antenna, be mounted at the top of my roof. I am thinking of possibly 2 directional antennas, one pointing NW and the other pointed SE, linked together. My goal is bringing in the networks consistently, but maybe I am asking to much. At this point do not want to put up a tower, trying to stay discrete as possible. Also trying to avoid using a rotor. Goal would be bringing in both FOX's, but would be happy with one.
Appreciate any feedback at possible solutions that might work for me.

I originally bought Antennas Direct DB4E Antenna thinking I could get away with an antenna in the attic, but soon realized that setup would not work. Here is my test system,
Antennas Direct DB4E Antenna, on a mast in the second story bedroom, pointed out the window
Winegard LNA-200 Boost XT Digital HDTV Preamplifier
The antenna is pointed NW, about 330 degrees,

Below are the links for the two maps, the 2 channels that are LOS, I actually do not care about.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e036210a2be30

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Additional info,
My Location Elevation 520
Nashville Elevation 597
Paducah Elevation 341
Cape Girardeau Elevation 351

Here are the stations I can receive at the moment. As you will see only 6 is consistent and for the rest my only chance is the evening.

2.x wkrn 99 miles Nashville ABC, sometimes, SE

3.x wsil 59 miles southern Illinois ABC, in the evening, pretty consistent, NW

5.x wtvf 93 miles Nashville CBS, in the evening, 2 out 3 times, SE
5.2
5.3 thistv.

6.x. Wpsd. 44 miles Paduka NBC, always, night and day, NW

17.x wztv 92 miles Nashville FOX, in the evening, pretty consistent, SE

23.1 kbsi 79 miles Cape Girardeau FOX, in the evening, pretty consistent, NW

23.2 wdka 50 miles, in the evening, pretty consistent, NW

49.1 wdka 50 miles Paducah, myTV, in the evening, pretty consistent, NW
49.2 gettv
49.3

58.x wnab Nashville 92 miles CW, in the evening, pretty consistent, SE

[rabbit73]

Welcome to the forum, Marley:

I want to put up an outside antenna, be mounted at the top of my roof.

That's a good idea with your weak 2Edge signals that are far away; the curvature of the earth begins to interfere with signals at about 70 miles.

I am thinking of possibly 2 directional antennas, one pointing NW and the other pointed SE,

You would need to do that if you want both directions and avoid using a rotator.

linked together.

That is not easily done because when the same signals from each antenna reach the combining point they will interfere with each other if they are not in phase.

My goal is bringing in the networks consistently, but maybe I am asking to much. At this point do not want to put up a tower, trying to stay discrete as possible. Also trying to avoid using a rotor.

Your goals are mutually exclusive because weak poor quality signals require large high gain antennas that are very directional. I suggest you start with a modest approach with a Winegard HD7697P or better yet a 7698 aimed SE with a preamp.

The antenna is pointed NW, about 330 degrees,

The antenna needs to be aimed directly at the transmitter for best reception.

With your weak signals in many directions, a CATV system would need something like this:



Are there any trees or buildings in the signal paths?

If your signals were stronger, I would suggest a bi-directional antenna because the two directions are about 180 degrees apart. Your DB4E would become bi-directional if the reflector screen was removed. That would only be good for the UHF channels, real channels 14-51 as listed on your report; there would still be the problem of VHF-High real channels 7-13.

You could have the two antennas for different directions with an A/B switch to select the antenna needed. Your TV would need to be able to add a channel after scan, like my Sony, to avoid having to rescan after every change of antenna.

An alternate approach would be to have one antenna connected to the antenna input and have the second antenna connected to a separate tuner with its output connected to the A/V or HDMI input of the TV.

[Marley]

Thank you for the reply,

Well I was thinking I would get feedback like this. I am on top of a ridge, no other buildings near me, all electric underground. As for trees, there is a small cluster both NW and SE, but start trending down hill, clear after that. I am thinking once the antenna is installed it would be above or at the top of these trees.

Since linking 2 antennas would be problematic, and running an additional cable to my tv's would be almost impossible, house had cable run to all points when built 2 years ago. I will now have to look at a rotor, or start out just pointing one direction. Would the SE be better, Nashville is farther, but higher in elevation, I have never been able to test pointing SE because the only window I can point out has a tree in the way. Currently the backside of my antenna is pointing to the center of the house and yet I can receive Nashville channels in the evening.

Wow that antenna is over 8 foot long, but if that is what it takes, but it is only uhf, don't I need a vhf/uhf? I guessed on a pre-amp for my test setup, would there be a better one to use for my situation? Also noticed it said a 60 mile antenna, is that something of concern?

Any other assistance is sure appreciated.

[rabbit73]

Would the SE be better,

I favor SE because that's where your strongest Fox is, but the report is only a computer simulation, subject to many errors, especially with your terrain. I don't see any reason you can't test both directions even if you don't have a rotator.

Wow that antenna is over 8 foot long, but if that is what it takes, but it is only uhf, don't I need a vhf/uhf?

The Winegard HD7697P and 7698 are both VHF-High (real channels 7-13) and UHF (14-51) combo antennas. The 7697 is 131.25" long and the 7698 is 168.25" long. The baby in the series, 7694, is 65" long, but I thought it might not have enough gain for your weak signals. However, if you can get it high and in the clear, it might do; there is no substitute for antenna gain. If the signal isn't coming out of the antenna terminals, an amp can't create it.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...enna-(hd7694p)
http://www.skywalker.com/catalog/Manuals/WIN1051.pdf

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd7697p
http://www.winegard.com/kbase/uploads/HD7697P.pdf

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd7698p
http://www.winegard.com/kbase/uploads/HD7698P.pdf

Also noticed it said a 60 mile antenna, is that something of concern?

Ignore the mileage figures. They are a creation of the marketing department, not the engineering department. I go by the TVFOOL report numbers and where the antenna is located.



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

A signal, by definition, must have a Noise Margin (NM) of at least 0 dB. If the signal you want has a negative NM you can add your antenna gain and your preamp gain, but you must subtract the Noise Figure (NF) of your preamp because it adds its own internal noise that reduces the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) of your weak signals.

I guessed on a pre-amp for my test setup, would there be a better one to use for my situation?

You do need a preamp; the Winegard LNA-200 is pretty good. It's adequate for your tests, but there are other preamps that have better Noise Figure specs. Consider the Antennas Direct Juice, Channel Master 7778, and RCA TVPRAMP1R. The Juice is highly resistant to overload, has a low NF, doesn't have an FM trap, so you must add one between the antenna and the input of the preamp. It does, however, have an LTE filter, which is becoming more important with new 4G frequencies just above UHF TV. The CM 7778 does have an FM filter. The RCA is inexpensive, works OK, but has a history of quality control problems. You can buy 3 for the price of the others.

I don't have your exact location, but I estimate from your TVFOOL report you are in the Faxon area of Murray, KY. I did an FMFOOL report that shows some strong FM signals that might interfere with TV reception. You should use an FM filter; some preamps have an FM filter built in. See attachment.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-FM-88-/33-341
http://comingsoon.radioshack.com/rad...l#.VaW_3DjbJLM
very slow link

The coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

[Marley]

Hello,

Thank for all these details. I will need a little study time, allot of this is new to me. I might have additional questions.