New to Antenna's - Need Advice

[MrOrange]

Hey Everyone,

I am new to all of DTV / HDTV OTA and could really use some advice.

I am located in Kitchener, ON, Canada and looking to install a new antenna for my Grandparents to recieve local DTV / HDTV stations. They used to only recieve CKCO TV (Channel 13) and now nothing as I believe they completely switched to DTV broadcasting.

I would like to recieve as many channels as possible, spending up to a max of $200 on the antenna.

This is my Analysis from TV Fool:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60b590c8fad50d

I almost got sucked into the Lava HD line, thankfully I google everything.

I don't know if I need just UHV or VHF, or both, and then which antenna would be best to get for either.

I ran into the Winegard HD8200U and am not sure if this is overkill? If it suits my application? Or if I need something completely different?

I do realize a small set top box or outdoor antenna will recieve CKCO, but since I am going to spend the money, I would prefer to get as many channels as possible around the area.


I would value any and all advice.


Thanks SO much guys.

[John Candle]

How many tv's are/will be connected?? Also please make a new radar plot with the antenna at 25 foot antenna height. Your Grandparents will receive some of the Canada digital tv stations with the antenna at the current default height of 10 feet and with the antenna at 25 feet high will receive more Canada digital tv stations and might receive some American digital tv stations. Here are some converter boxes to use , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=380 Leave the current 10 foot radar plot in place and make a new 25 foot radar plot.

[MrOrange]

Hey, thanks a lot for your response.

I would like to connect two TV's, three at most but two is more than sufficient, so I will stick with two.

I made a second plot with 25ft as requested, and it's here: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60b56b8e6dc2a5

Do you have recommendations on the appropriate antenna to look at / the best way to connect two televisions?

I have been reading up a little and am now under the impression that I need both VHF and UHF to obtain the most channels in the area, especially if I am after real channel 13. I think?

Thanks so much

[John Candle]

I will be back soon with antenna/antennas recommendation.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by MrOrange

I would like to recieve as many channels as possible, spending up to a max of $200 on the antenna.

I am assuming that many of the analog stations listed on TV Fool are not actually on the air.

I'd do two antennas, a VHF only Y5-7-13 aimed at 98° (halfway between 9 & 11) plus a second UHF only. The selection of the UHF only antenna depends on your wants.

A 4 bay UHF aimed at 111° without a rotator would get CBLT, WNLO, CITS and CKXT. A 91XG would add CBLFT and WNED, but would need to be rotated to pick up CBLT and CBLFT.

On some days additional UHF stations could be picked up, some from Buffalo and some from Toronto.

In either case a dual input preamp such as the Channel Master 7777 or Winegard AP 2870 is needed.

[John Candle]

Tvfool is being updated , the 'pending applications included' for analog and digital channels as of 10-03-11 is not the latest up date. What I recommend for now is a Channel Master CM3679 antenna aimed at 218 degree magnetic compass for the reception of , digital channels , CKCO-DT 13 CTV , CIII-DT 6 GTN , CICO-DT 28 TVO , CITY-DT 31 CITY , CFPL-DT 10 A. Here is a place to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.saveandreplay.com. When tvfool is updated I will be able to recommend more. 2 antennas will likely be need for the reception of the rest of the Canada stations. The American stations are Very Weak even with the antenna at 25 feet , because this is your Grand Parents I do not recommend going after the 1 or 2 American stations because it will likely require a third antenna. Here is the Channel Master web site , http://www.channelmasterstore.com

[Dave Loudin]

Before you spend any money, consult the reception results thread for your area here at Digital Home. Before you post anything, read the welcome thread. There is no better resource for Canadian DTV.

[Tigerbangs]

If you click on the "pending applications, digital-only" on your TVFool.com report, you will get the most accurate view of digital reception in your area.

Based on that information, Toronto is about 90 KM from your location, and the Kitchener stations are fairly close-by. You woulld probably best be served by using a deep-fringe all-channel antenna along with a high-input preamplifier and a rotator.

I would suggest a Winegard HD-7084P along with a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier or an AntennasDirect CPA-19 and a good rotator like a Channel Master 9521a or an AntennaCraft TDP-2. The Kitchener and Toronto stations will be available to you if you make this choice

[be236]

Seems lots of folks here are recommending CPA-19 pre-amp with NF 2.0 dB.

Is there a reason not to mention/recommend KT-200 pre-amp with NF 0.4 dB, especially if you're in a deep fringe area? The one drawback I know about is that it is not weatherproof and you have to make your own enclosure yet.

Furthermore the guy (Kitt?) there replied to me saying that if I just have 100 feet RG 6 cable from antenna to TV input that there's no difference to put the pre-amp next to antenna or indoors next to TV. That's strange, since I always read/thought there is about 6dB loss for each 100 feet RG6 cable run?

[Tigerbangs]

I'm sure that the Kitt fellow is going to tell you what he has to to sell you his product. I'm sure it isn't a bad product, but it can't overcome the losses incurred in the transmission line before it's introduction into the system. The accepted way to amplify a weak signal is to amplify it as close to the source (antenna) as possible to minimize line losses down the line.

[GroundUrMast]

The net effect of installing the amplifier on the end of 100' of RG-6 would be equivalent to adding about 6 dB to the noise figure of the amplifier.

While measurable, the difference in noise figure will rarely make enough difference in reception reliability (comparing the KT-200 vs a preamp with a NF of 2 to 3 dB). Signal level variation due to fading and transient impulse noise can greatly exceed the 1.5 dB or less gain in net system NM.

For the user who is willing to build an enclosure just below the antenna, who is going after very weak signals, the KT-200 may be part of the optimum system design.

For most consumers, the products from Antennacraft, Antennas Direct, Channel Master and Winegard will be easier to install and will provide the needed gain to overcome cable and splitter losses.

[be236]

Yeah, that's what I figured (best to mount pre-amp as closest to antenna as possible).

Well, at least he offers a 10-day money back guarantee (most you lose is the shipping to and from, I suppose)...