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Old 16-Mar-2013, 5:58 PM   #1
GaryArnold
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DB8e vs Super G 1483

Antennas Direct claims their DB8e is the most powerful HDTV antenna in the world. I challenge that claim.

Antenna Craft makes a 16-bay UHF antenna, the Super G 1483 which my research shows has a higher gain and a larger capture area, and sells for less money.

Although the Super G doesn't have the flexibility of facing more than one direction at a time, for extreme deep fringe reception, based on my research, I'd go with the Super G as the most powerful HDTV antenna at this time.

Has anyone done a comparison test done between those two antennas.

Personally, I use a Channel Master 4251 7-ft. parabolic UHF antenna which has higher gain and a larger capture area than either of those two antennas.

It appears I may have posted this under the wrong forum. I can't find a way to delete it and move it to the antenna forum.

Last edited by GaryArnold; 16-Mar-2013 at 6:02 PM. Reason: Antenna question.
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Old 16-Mar-2013, 7:20 PM   #2
teleview
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The reason for no stacking bars is ,

The manufactures , Winegard , Channel Master , and etc. , that sold them in the past have chosen to concentrate there antenna sales on , John and Jane Public.

Selling stacking bars will in no way shape or forum be detrimental to the survival of , Winegard or Channel Master , or Etc. , in the market place.

There was a time when Winegard and Channel Master as examples , for a very long time , year after year after year after after year after year after year in the past , detailed technical information was provided as a matter of every day common information.

This practical and useful technical information is in no way detrimental to the survival of as examples , Winegard , Channel Master and others in the market place.

As a mater of fact the Truth is that Real and Actual Practical and Useful Information will a sure survival in the market place.

___________________________________________________


Antennas Direct advertising for the DB8e is misleading because it puts forth the idea , (by lack of information) , that the panels will receive with no problems when the panels are aimed in different directions.

And if the panels are not aimed directly forward then extra antenna gain is lost.

I predict that many people will be less then happy with the DB8e.

Last edited by teleview; 17-Mar-2013 at 6:35 AM.
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Old 16-Mar-2013, 8:58 PM   #3
GroundUrMast
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Unless I'm mistaken, the Super G 1483 is no longer in production. I see a few for sale on line, presumably new-old-stock, but the Antennacraft site does not list it... I believe the CM-4251 is also long gone from production.

But if one is able to find one of these, they are certainly in the 'Big Gun' class of UHF antennas.

Quote:
...puts forth the idea , (by lack of information)...
Are you suggesting that all advertising copy must contain a detailed list of all potential negatives about a product? Or are you proposing that only Antennas Direct be held to such draconian standards? Given the unprecedented detail of their published Technical Data Sheet, which includes gain for various panel angles, I fail to see a credible complaint against AD, they've offered far more information about the product than any other consumer grade antenna manufacturer.
Quote:
...have chosen to concentrate there antenna sales on , John and Jane Public.
Many great products have failed in the market place... I can't fault a company for sticking with what sells, their survival depends on it.
Quote:
I predict that many people will be less then happy with the DB8e.
Perhaps - Time will tell. Certainly those who assume something untrue, then fail to do due diligence to confirm or deny their assumption will be setting themselves up for disappointment. Then some of those folks will likely go on line and write a review blaming the product and manufacturer for their ignorance.

Based on the feedback from AD, I'm a bit concerned about the efficiency of the harness + combiner they've chosen for the DB8E. Per ADTech, "There's nothing magical or otherwise about the combiner - it's a very good two port splitter that is about as efficient as we could produce. If it's been treated with pixie dust or otherwise has "special" characteristics that eliminate signal phasing issues, I didn't get told about that. The coaxial cable's length has been optimized for this application." http://forum.tvfool.com/showpost.php...84&postcount=7 If I understand this statement correctly, one would expect to loose more than 3 dB in the combining network. If so, that leaves one with net gain similar to a single DB4E while still gaining directivity. Please correct me if I'm off on this...

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 16-Mar-2013 at 9:31 PM.
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Old 16-Mar-2013, 9:19 PM   #4
GaryArnold
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Antenna Craft has told me they are still manufacturing the Super G 16-bay UHF antenna. It is not available on their website as it is being made for and marketed by Summit Source. They have it on their website.
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Old 16-Mar-2013, 9:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryArnold View Post
Antenna Craft has told me they are still manufacturing the Super G 16-bay UHF antenna. It is not available on their website as it is being made for and marketed by Summit Source. They have it on their website.
That's very helpful information, thanks
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Old 18-Mar-2013, 4:17 PM   #6
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If you have data from the manufacturer as to the performance of the "Super G 1483", then a comparison can be made. I see that Summitsource claims "UHF Average Gain: 16 dB", a rather imprecise technical specification.

The only manufacturer's data I can find is for the 8-bay G1483 (half of a "Super") which simply lists it's UHF gain as "11 dB" without any other qualifiers or explanation. If you can figure out how to combine two of them to create a 16 bay antenna and achieve an increase of gain of more than 3 dB, please share.

The numbers from Summitsource's website don't compute.
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Last edited by ADTech; 18-Mar-2013 at 4:21 PM.
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Old 18-Mar-2013, 4:42 PM   #7
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I don't have data from AntennaCraft on this model, but I did read a discussion of this exact topic on the net a while back but didn't bookmark it.

I have spoken to KAS Satellite in Indiana. The owner told me they have sold hundreds of the Stacked Super G 16-bay UHF antennas. The only thing he could tell me is that somehow the stacking harness used on that antenna is adding more gain. He stated they have tried stacking the two 8-bay antennas using other stacking methods which resulted in much less gain. He said it was a mystery how the gain increases on that antenna when stacked with the AntennaCraft stacking harness.

Antennas has been a hobby of mine for well over 50 years. I have studied all types of TV antennas. I have also found that different manufacturers can use different gain tests, and depending on the method they use, can come up with different results. I have gain charts from Channel Master, from many years ago, sent to me at different times for the same antennas, where the gain is substantially different from one test to another.

When Antennas Direct qualifies their gain specifications with the statement, "Assumptions: PEC, free space, no loss in combiner & phasing harness" it makes me wonder whether they actually did a live signal test with the DB8e or whether they are using computer models, etc.

I'd like to see an actual comparison test between the DB8e and the Stacked Super G. If Antennas Direct hasn't done such a comparison test, how can they claim the DB8e is the world's most powerful antenna?
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Old 18-Mar-2013, 5:42 PM   #8
ADTech
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Since you've been around antennas that long, then you should know, for example, why there is reason that the ARRL long ago required antenna advertisers in their publication to publish gain specifications based on computer modelling, not "field tests". The methodology for all of our performance data is disclosed and should be reproducible by anyone running the same or similar software. If you can find another TV antenna manufacturer who provides this level of technical data, please let us know.


BTW, are you going to give Summitsource a hard time for their ad copy on his page since it's clearly unsubstantiated?

http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...83-p-6356.html
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Last edited by ADTech; 18-Mar-2013 at 5:48 PM.
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Old 18-Mar-2013, 6:28 PM   #9
GaryArnold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
BTW, are you going to give Summitsource a hard time for their ad copy on his page since it's clearly unsubstantiated?
I have contacted Summit Source, requesting exactly how they back up their guarantee that their 8-bay Super G will outperform all other 8-bay antennas. I am waiting for their reply.

I am sure the DB8e is a good antenna. It has a nice capture area which can be more important than gain under certain circumstances. My field testing, at my home, shows how important capture area is when receiving 1 edge or tropo signals.
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Old 18-Mar-2013, 7:11 PM   #10
GaryArnold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryArnold View Post
I have contacted Summit Source, requesting exactly how they back up their guarantee that their 8-bay Super G will outperform all other 8-bay antennas. I am waiting for their reply.
I just received my answer from Summit Source:

"The statement "Guaranteed to Outperform all other 8-Bay HD TV Antennas!!!" was once printed on the product packaging from
the manufacturer, and we added their statement to the product web page
on our site for the listing. Some time has passed since then, and we
just checked the current product packaging and that statement is now no
longer included. As such, we will be updating the product page on our
site to remove that statement, since the manufacturer no longer has it
listed on their product packaging."
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