TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 27-Nov-2015, 12:26 AM   #1
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
Needed Channel Missing

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b97d91a84402af

Attached is my report.
I am using a clearstream 4v no amp. I can't pull in abc 6.1. I get 10.1, 4.1 and 28.1 cbs, nbc and fox respectively. The one thing I notice right off the bat is the azimuth is not even close to the other major networks I can get. Can you please give me some advise on how to get 6.1.

Thanks
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 12:30 AM   #2
MikeBear
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mid-Michigan - Retired on Beta Omicron Delta III
Posts: 84
Did you mean ABC 5.1, WEWS-TV? That's 2Edge, (that means it "bounces off of two things" before getting to you) and 69 miles away from you.

That will take a large outside antenna, at least 30-40 feet UP to be able to MAYBE get that one some of the time... In other words, it's probably not going to happen without a lot of luck, and an expensive antenna system.

I highly suggest you go for cable, or Dish or Directv with that Tvfool report...
MikeBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 1:07 AM   #3
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
Thanks for the quick response. 5.1 is out of Cleveland, I am wanting 6.1 out of Columbus. I am picking up all the major networks from Columbus except 6.1. That one is 53 miles away.

Thanks
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 1:13 AM   #4
MikeBear
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mid-Michigan - Retired on Beta Omicron Delta III
Posts: 84
Do you mean: WLFM-LP ("low power"), is only 3kw broadcast power, analog broadcast AND Low VHF (your antenna can't get low vhf). That could be 10 miles away, and you wouldn't be able to receive it. That's like trying to see a lit candle from that distance.

It's not going to happen no matter what you do, so forget that one.

If it's not that one, please give the call letters of the one you want.

Last edited by MikeBear; 27-Nov-2015 at 1:24 AM.
MikeBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 1:28 AM   #5
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
Thats not the one I am after I want wsyx 6.1 uhf litte further down report. noise margin -9.1 (52 miles), 208 degrees.

Thanks
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 1:37 AM   #6
MikeBear
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mid-Michigan - Retired on Beta Omicron Delta III
Posts: 84
You need a signal level no lower than 0 to have much hope of receiving it. Your -9.1, would need 9 db gain from an antenna, JUST to bring it up to zero level. You'd also need to be aimed directly at it, outside antenna up 40-50ft, and a preamp since it's 2edge, and has co-channel interference.

It could maybe be done with enough money thrown at it, but that all together is a lot of issues you are fighting against.

Last edited by MikeBear; 27-Nov-2015 at 1:39 AM.
MikeBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 1:50 AM   #7
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
Money not an issue want it right. Clearstream 4v is 12.25 dbi max gain puts me real close to 0. I do have a RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier which should make up the difference if I put it on. Only problem is when I put the amp on i loose all channels. Believe I am overpowering system. I had the clearstream 2v but just bought the 4v thinking that would take care of it since its a 65 mile antenna but still not getting 6.1. I am only 15 ft off ground.
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 1:32 PM   #8
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
I am getting ready to increase the height, how much higher would you recommend?
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 2:08 PM   #9
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 271
I think you would need a high gain antenna such as the Antennas Direct 91XG mounted as high as possible so there are no trees or buildings in front of the antenna. Feed the antenna with its own coax cable to an A/B switch. I will leave it to others to comment on a pre-amp since I don't use one, but I would certainly try your RCA preamp since you already have it. Also be aware that WSYX on real channel 48 will very likely be moving to a new channel assignment as part of the FCC's TV Spectrum Repacking that is moving forward.
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 3:30 PM   #10
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
Thank you for the info. Is there a link or good reading material for the spectrum repacking? I am helping my father and I am thinking any major changes should not be done until see how everything shuffles.
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 4:59 PM   #11
Tim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 271
There is a pretty good overview at: http://www.wbklaw.com/uploads/file/A...8-25-2015).pdf
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 5:12 PM   #12
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,942
Please avoid using virtual channel numbers, use the call letters for the station as they are unambiguous.

You cannot use the RCA amp in your location. It will overload.

To have any realistic shot at receiving WSYX, all of the following need to be true:

1. The C4V must be aimed DIRECTLY at the station.
2. The antenna must have a CLEAR AND UNOBSTRUCTED view in that direction.
3. You must use an over-load resistant preamp to preserve whatever signals might actually make it off the antenna.

Quote:
Clearstream 4v is 12.25 dbi max gain puts me real close to 0.
No, it doesn't. You must first correct from dBi to dBd before trying to apply the C4's calculated gain from the TVFool calculated noise margin. Subtract 2.2 from either the gain or the noise margin to compensate.

WSYX's transmitter provides poor coverage out to their northeast due to the drop in terrain in the vicinity of Sparta. Based on TVFool's statistical calculations, your odds of picking it up are, at best, somewhere between "Poor" and "Very Poor".

The looming spectrum repack is one of those things that are expected to eventually happen some time in the future but is still too ambiguous for anyone to really make any decisions yet.
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 5:17 PM   #13
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
If I understand the info correctly uhf stations will likely be reduced and moved to vhf correct? The clearstream 4v is a poor quality vhf antenna so after switch over I am thinking a different antenna will need to be considered, am I looking at this correctly?
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 6:25 PM   #14
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
what would you recommend for an overload resistance pre-amp?
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 8:25 PM   #15
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,708
Quote:
If I understand the info correctly uhf stations will likely be reduced and moved to vhf correct?
The auction allows each broadcaster a number of choices, each one for a different amount of money.
Quote:
The clearstream 4v is a poor quality vhf antenna so after switch over I am thinking a different antenna will need to be considered, am I looking at this correctly?
The CS4V is not a poor quality antenna but the "V" of the CS4V is a simple dipole with a gain of 0 dBd, or 2.1 dBi, which is the same as what the NM figure on your tvfool report uses. The dipole is useful for strong VHF signals and can be aimed in a different direction than the UHF section. What VHF channels do you want? WSYX is UHF.

At my location I use a 4-bay UHF antenna with a folded dipole for VHF-High.

What is so important about WSYX? You have a stronger ABC channel WEWS.

If WSYX is vital, you could have a friend stream it from his location with a Slingbox.

Looking at the coverage map for WSYX, you can see that there is no signal left at the receiving antenna:



Quote:
what would you recommend for an overload resistance pre-amp?
The best one available now is the Antennas Direct Juice.

What you would need for WSYX is a separate high gain UHF antenna like a DB8e with both panels aimed at WSYX, a 91XG, or two 91XGs combined, a high gain low noise preamp, and a custom bandpass filter for real channel 48 from Tin Lee. The usual single channel bandpass filter might have too much insertion loss for channel 48. Maybe a custom filter that is highpass below 48 combined with a lowpass above 48 to block LTE would have less insertion loss. Channel 51 probably isn't strong enough to cause a problem to 48. The Juice preamp has an internal LTE filter, so all you would need is a simple highpass filter between the antenna and the input of the preamp.

As a simple test now you could use the high section of a UVSJ which would attenuate FM and WMFD, but it wouldn't attenuate 41 and 43. The custom highpass filter would be needed to do that. Talk to the Tin Lee engineer and email your tvfool report to him. No guarantee that this will work, but it is the best idea I have now.

http://www.tinlee.com/index.php

The Juice preamp does have an LTE filter but does not have an FM filter; you can add one if needed.

http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/e...0/Radar-FM.png
Attached Images
File Type: jpg handaspencer2TVFcovWSYX.JPG (101.0 KB, 664 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 28-Nov-2015 at 1:36 AM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 9:10 PM   #16
ADTech
Antennas Direct Tech Supp
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,942
Quote:
The clearstream 4v is a poor quality vhf antenna so after switch over I am thinking a different antenna will need to be considered, am I looking at this correctly?
Short answer, no.

Long answer - see short answer.
__________________
Antennas Direct Tech Support

For support and recommendations regarding our products, please contact us directly at https://www.antennasdirect.com/customer-service.html

Sorry, I'm not a mod and cannot assist with your site registration.
ADTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-Nov-2015, 9:54 PM   #17
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
Before I contact tin Lee quick question. I would love to get wews ABC. I have a rotor to get it but also was not able to get it. Only reason I was mentioning wsyx is because I was getting the other major affiliates from Columbus but missing that. I am willing to go with wews if that's easier.
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-Nov-2015, 1:50 AM   #18
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,708
Oh, OK. It is also weak and has the same problem of the curvature of the earth. Hold off on Tin Lee until you make a test with the UVSJ and the Juice preamp. If you do need a filter for a separate antenna just for ABC, it would then be for real channel 15.

If you don't get a hint of either ABC with your C4, a UVSJ and the Juice preamp as a test, then it would be a gamble whether an upgrade to a separate antenna just for ABC with more gain and a custom filter would do any better. I don't want to give you false hope and waste your money.



TERRAIN PROFILES OF WSYX AND WEWS ON PAGE 2 OF THIS THREAD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg handaspencer2TVFcovWEWS.JPG (99.7 KB, 623 views)
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 28-Nov-2015 at 2:28 PM.
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-Nov-2015, 11:34 AM   #19
rabbit73
Retired A/V Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 2,708
You insulted ADTech. Antennas Direct doesn't make poor quality antennas, they make very good quality antennas and they stand behind them.
__________________
If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-Nov-2015, 1:16 PM   #20
handaspencer
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 36
No insult intended, my apologies. My comment was made as a result of reviews I read and people I talked to, my knowledge is limited. As a matter of fact my father has bought a clearstream 2v and clearstream 4v within the last year. I am getting ready to buy a clearstream 4v for my father in law for Christmas. We absolutely love them but both situations have no vhf channels in the target areas. My concern was if things was switched to vhf after the auctions would we begin to have problems. I have found the clearstreams to be a great great uhf antenna but I have not tried to get a vhf station as none is available, its an opinion formed from reviews not experience.
handaspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 5:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC