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Old 25-Jul-2014, 5:07 AM   #1
HDTV
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2
Best way to spend up to $700 to get the MAXIMUM # of HDTV channels.

Hello Everyone,

This is one awesome forum ! The knowledge that you bring to the site blows me away .

I am on a mission to get as many HDTV channels as possible especially Buffalo NY channels. I have not cut the cord yet, but if I can get enough channels the satellite provider will get their eviction notice .


I live out in the country and am looking for the best HDTV setup possible. I have a tower that is at least 25 feet of the ground, possibly more. I do have an antenna setup that came with the house . It has never worked.

I have consulted 2 different installers over the phone and each had completely different suggestions for what equipment would be best.

Suggestion # 1
Channel Master CM 4228 8-bay HDTV/UHF Antenna
Channel Master CM 7777 TITAN2 UHF/VHF
9521A Rotor

Suggestion #2
Channel Master CM-5020 Outdoor TV Antenna
9521A Rotor

Latitude : 43.700446
Longitude : -80.172636
I used tvfool.com for the attachment and the below link
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c63c658e0af9

I also attached photos of the current non working antenna as well as a photo of the tower and our treeline.

I am willing to spend more money to get more channels, particularly the Buffalo NY channels. I also read something about a C-band antenna ? Would that be any good ?

I appreciate what ever help you can give me !

Thank you,
Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TV fool Interactive browser.jpg (174.6 KB, 314 views)
File Type: jpg Treeline.jpg (165.7 KB, 339 views)
File Type: jpg Setup.jpg (97.6 KB, 347 views)
File Type: jpg Antenna.jpg (152.7 KB, 344 views)
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Old 25-Jul-2014, 9:18 AM   #2
teleview
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+=>

Remove the UHF antenna that is on the tower.

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------>------->----->---->A antenna rotator is Not required.<----<-------<---------<-------

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Install a , Antennas Direct , DB8e , current UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna.

Aim the DB8e antenna at about 142 degree magnetic compass direction for reception of as many of the Weak Signal Strength UHF Channels , Buffalo Tv Stations as possible.

And the stronger Canada UHF Tv stations/channels will also be received.

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Here is how to aim antennas ,

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc compass.

As always , antenna aim can be adjusted for best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a , Signal Strength Meter , and some Digital Tv's also have a , Signal Quality Meter.


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Also install a , http://antennacraft.net.

Y10-7-13 , VHF high band channels 7 through 13 antenna for reception of CKCO-DT , VHF high band channel 13 , Network CTV 1 .

Aim the Y10-7-13 antenna at about 239 degree magnetic compass direction.


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Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G221 preamplifier.

Connect the DB8e UHF antenna to the UHF connection on the preamp.

Connect the Y10-7-13 VHF high band antenna to the VHF connection on the preamp.

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Install the , DB8e antenna about 3 feet above the Y10-7-13 antenna on the same antenna mast pipe.

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As a Test to prove reception.

Use All New Coaxes for the connections of Tv antennas and amplifier.

And run the All New Continues Length Coax through a open door or window direct to 1 Tv , No couplers , No splitters.

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If reception Test proves successful then,

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc.

http://www.saveandreplay.com.

http://www.trentondistributors.com.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is to install antennas at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

The directions of reception at your location are , South East , South , South West , East.

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The closer all types and kinds of obstructions are to the antennas , the more the reception will be disrupted.

It is Ok to cut down trees that are close , in the directions of reception.

The directions of reception are , East , South East , South , South West.

Last edited by teleview; 28-Jul-2014 at 6:49 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 25-Jul-2014, 1:59 PM   #3
stvcmty
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 135
How many TV’s do you want to use? A single TV with an antenna on a rotor is much simpler and less expensive than multiple TV’s/DVR’s/HTPC’s with filters to merge signals from multiple markets.

If you want distant market channels, a c-band dish or ku-band dish would be used to get FTA satellite signals. That is very different from ATSC OTA TV, it would need a FTA satellite set top box to tune. People on the forum at http://www.satelliteguys.us/ could help you. The problem with FTA is there is no guarantee any signal will stay on the same satellite or stay unscrambled.

If you want the C***-DT stations and the W***-DT stations, I think your best bet would be two separate antenna systems.

All the US stations on your plot are UHF, so any of the high gain UHF antennas would work (DB8e, CM 4228, 91XG). Put the US station UHF antenna as high as safely possible. If you put it on a rotor, you can fine tune the aim from the ground. You would want a low noise preamp, possibly a PA18 (or a KT200 in a weather proof enclosure). I think you are far enough from your closest stations for a low noise fringe amp to not overload. Aim the antenna around between 126 and 133 degrees true. The rotor would be helpful to find the exact best place to aim it for the US stations.

The Canadian stations are a bit spread out. Some of the ones off the main group are strong enough they would probably be picked up by the US antenna or by an antenna for the Canadian stations. You could use a VHF/UHF antenna for the Canadian stations, or you could use separate antennas for them. I would lean to separate because that gives more mounting flexibility. Starting with the VHF stations, if you want CFTO on RF9 and CKCO on RF 13, I would get 2 Y10-7-13’s. I would get a CH13 jointenna from http://www.channelmasterstore.com/JO..._p/cm-0583.htm Then put the antenna pointed at CKCO on RF 13 into CH13 input and the antenna pointed at CFTO on RF9 into the broadband input. That should give you an incredibly solid signal for two VHF stations from different directions. The VHF signals should be the most forgiving, so they can go the lowest on the tower, below UHF antennas. For the Canadian UHF stations, pick a good UHF antenna (DB8e for example) and point it at 96 degrees true. It should go next highest on the tower after the US UHF antenna. I would use a TVPRAMP1R to merge the CH9/13 feed from the jointenna with the signal from the Canadian UHF antenna.

For a separate two antenna systems solution, do not try to merge the US coax with the Canadian coax. Either have an AB coax switch at the TV, or use some sort of external tuner for one system and the TV’s built in tuner for the other system. (The one exception to that being VHF. All the US stations are UHF, so you could split the Canadian system after the power inserter, send one side to your viewing device(s), and the other to the V terminal on a UVSJ. Then take the US system’s output from the power inserter and feed it into the U terminal on the UVSJ. The combined terminal on the UVSJ will have the US UHF stations with the Canadian VHF stations.

If you really want to merge the Canadian and US channels properly, you will need a heterodyne processor for every station you want to put on the same coax. A single digital heterodyne processor would blow your $700.

Last edited by stvcmty; 25-Jul-2014 at 2:02 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 25-Jul-2014, 2:34 PM   #4
stvcmty
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Posts: 135
Looking at current versus pending the Canadian channels change a lot. There is also the possibility the Canadian information TV fool uses is out of date or incomplete. With that being said, it may be of limited value to put lots of money and effort into getting Canadian stations.
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Old 25-Jul-2014, 9:15 PM   #5
stvcmty
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Posts: 135
How is the tower supported? Is there a gable bracket? Does it have a tilt down base.

Does the tower appear to be in good physical shape? Is there rust? Are any sections bent/bowed/compromised?

Working on towers can be dangerous. Climb it at your own risk. When in doubt, contact a professional.

Is the tower grounded? The top of the tower/antenna(s)/mast could be an attractive target for lightening. Measures should be taken to provide a low resistance/low impedance path to ground. Amateur radio books are a good source for grounding guidance. As a start, an 8 ground rod should be at the base of the tower connected with as short and straight of a run of heavy copper as possible. Beyond that several ground rods should be spaced radially from the tower 16 away from the base rod and each other and it all tied together with heavy copper wire or strap.



The antenna in the attached picture looks like it is in good shape. The coax may be the weak link. It looks bent/kinked. It looks like it has whipped around in the wind by not being well secured to the tower.

What type of antenna is on the mast above the UHF yagi at the top of the tower. Could you post a picture of it?
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Old 26-Jul-2014, 8:07 AM   #6
HDTV
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Thank you so much for this response. It is clear to me that you put a lot of thought into it. I really appreciate it. I am a complete beginner to ATSC OTA TV so please forgive me if I ask you a question that you have already answered above.

To answer your question , I will only have 1 TV hooked up.

Just to make sure I understand, you suggest the DB8e be used with the PA18 and a rotor for the US channels and to be mounted as high as possible. I'm curious why the you don't recommend the 5020 with the 7777 preamp or any other preamp for that matter ?

Regarding the Canadian channels many of them are just duplicates located in other cities. Take TVO for example . There would be no point in trying to get 2 TVO channels. They run exactly the same programming . Just a case of two different towers broadcasting the same thing .

I think you are right on the money about the Canadian channels changing alot. In this economy there is definitely no point in wasting money .Would this change your Canadian antenna recommendations ? I only need to get Toronto channels. This is a link to an up to date map detailing the location of all HDTV station transmitters :

http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/bigmap.htm

It detailed the location of all HDTV station transmitters around me. I am located just above the E in Eramsoa.

I believe the tower is mounted to the ground. I will double check tomorrow.

Tower looks to be in excellent shape no rust,broken parts etc.

Not sure if the tower is grounded. I will have to look into that too.

You might be right. The coax could be the problem. Man you have a good eye !

The upper antenna is for the internet. Nothing to do with TV. If you still would like a photo I would be happy to post .

Thank you so much!
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